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Post by the light works on Oct 6, 2017 16:58:14 GMT
so you enlist a couple of cronies... and find a big enough car park in the neighborhood to accommodate all three trucks at once... I must bow to a more evil mind than me that could come up with that plan?.. Heh heh heh. I may have to try and work on that. touching back to the driving a ford part - my parents' car was in the shop, some time back, and they loaned them what was at the time, the smallest Ford you could get in the US. - the IQ of its age, if you will. when they returned it to get their car back, the shop manager asked him how he liked it, and he said, "do people actually buy this car, on purpose?"
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Post by silverdragon on Oct 7, 2017 7:38:19 GMT
I must bow to a more evil mind than me that could come up with that plan?.. Heh heh heh. I may have to try and work on that. touching back to the driving a ford part - my parents' car was in the shop, some time back, and they loaned them what was at the time, the smallest Ford you could get in the US. - the IQ of its age, if you will. when they returned it to get their car back, the shop manager asked him how he liked it, and he said, "do people actually buy this car, on purpose?" On being asked to take a "loaner" whilst mine was in the shop under warranty, all those years ago, they had a small Yoyota, Yaris, two door, as the "loaner". The guy took one look at me, and said "We may have a problem... you may not fit?." And indeed I didnt. Strange thing is, my friend drives a Yaris Verso... same car but taller longer 5door "estate" version, small van almost. And I fit that perfectly?. Anyway, they had to bring round a new shape [at that time, Mk-2] Avensis, their "Demonstrator", and loan me that one. I like it not. The seats are bench-hard, no give in them at all, it wallows around on corners, and even though this was a 4 door, [mine being a 5-door] the thing made more noise on the move than mine full of kids?. As for the Yaris... The usual small 3door thing?.. driven my small people because six footers cant fit inside, slow, pondering, always in the way, "Nose fly" drivers... Do they buy the thing on purpose?. Yes, it echo's there personality. I still do not understand how people who have watched the 5th Gear Crash test can still get inside a "Stupid tm".. the thing is flipping dangerous in a crash?. Perhaps they believe in reincarnation, or perhaps they have no sense of personal worth, but if I drive, I want to know the car will keep me safe if some twonka decides to play bumper tag with me.
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Post by the light works on Oct 7, 2017 11:31:03 GMT
touching back to the driving a ford part - my parents' car was in the shop, some time back, and they loaned them what was at the time, the smallest Ford you could get in the US. - the IQ of its age, if you will. when they returned it to get their car back, the shop manager asked him how he liked it, and he said, "do people actually buy this car, on purpose?" On being asked to take a "loaner" whilst mine was in the shop under warranty, all those years ago, they had a small Yoyota, Yaris, two door, as the "loaner". The guy took one look at me, and said "We may have a problem... you may not fit?." And indeed I didnt. Strange thing is, my friend drives a Yaris Verso... same car but taller longer 5door "estate" version, small van almost. And I fit that perfectly?. Anyway, they had to bring round a new shape [at that time, Mk-2] Avensis, their "Demonstrator", and loan me that one. I like it not. The seats are bench-hard, no give in them at all, it wallows around on corners, and even though this was a 4 door, [mine being a 5-door] the thing made more noise on the move than mine full of kids?. As for the Yaris... The usual small 3door thing?.. driven my small people because six footers cant fit inside, slow, pondering, always in the way, "Nose fly" drivers... Do they buy the thing on purpose?. Yes, it echo's there personality. I still do not understand how people who have watched the 5th Gear Crash test can still get inside a "Stupid tm".. the thing is flipping dangerous in a crash?. Perhaps they believe in reincarnation, or perhaps they have no sense of personal worth, but if I drive, I want to know the car will keep me safe if some twonka decides to play bumper tag with me. one of the department administrators drives one - she bought it for commuting inside town. when they go out of town, they take the full size car. so as you know from Mythbusters, the twonka will need to be going at least 2½ times the speed limit to make it the equivalent of a 60 MPH collision.
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Post by silverdragon on Oct 7, 2017 11:46:05 GMT
On being asked to take a "loaner" whilst mine was in the shop under warranty, all those years ago, they had a small Yoyota, Yaris, two door, as the "loaner". The guy took one look at me, and said "We may have a problem... you may not fit?." And indeed I didnt. Strange thing is, my friend drives a Yaris Verso... same car but taller longer 5door "estate" version, small van almost. And I fit that perfectly?. Anyway, they had to bring round a new shape [at that time, Mk-2] Avensis, their "Demonstrator", and loan me that one. I like it not. The seats are bench-hard, no give in them at all, it wallows around on corners, and even though this was a 4 door, [mine being a 5-door] the thing made more noise on the move than mine full of kids?. As for the Yaris... The usual small 3door thing?.. driven my small people because six footers cant fit inside, slow, pondering, always in the way, "Nose fly" drivers... Do they buy the thing on purpose?. Yes, it echo's there personality. I still do not understand how people who have watched the 5th Gear Crash test can still get inside a "Stupid tm".. the thing is flipping dangerous in a crash?. Perhaps they believe in reincarnation, or perhaps they have no sense of personal worth, but if I drive, I want to know the car will keep me safe if some twonka decides to play bumper tag with me. one of the department administrators drives one - she bought it for commuting inside town. when they go out of town, they take the full size car. so as you know from Mythbusters, the twonka will need to be going at least 2½ times the speed limit to make it the equivalent of a 60 MPH collision. Unfortunately, on the dual carriageway near me, I have seen the twonks doing 100Plus down that stretch. Twonk, Taken Without Owners Consent, Twoc, becomes twoc-ker, or just plain twonka, and there is plenty around that use the dual carriageway as a race track during the evenings?. So "entirely probable" that the safe driver may meet a twit head on at three times the posted 30 limit, or in the 40 limit, its still one hell of a head-to-head if it happens. Does it happen?.. about three times a year. One local set of lights has a head-to-head or "T" bone at about once a month, mostly sub 50mph, sometimes over. Its a well known "What red?.." junction, I have counted up to six vehicles go through after red, and they all glare at me for daring to sound my horn.
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Post by the light works on Oct 7, 2017 12:14:29 GMT
one of the department administrators drives one - she bought it for commuting inside town. when they go out of town, they take the full size car. so as you know from Mythbusters, the twonka will need to be going at least 2½ times the speed limit to make it the equivalent of a 60 MPH collision. Unfortunately, on the dual carriageway near me, I have seen the twonks doing 100Plus down that stretch. Twonk, Taken Without Owners Consent, Twoc, becomes twoc-ker, or just plain twonka, and there is plenty around that use the dual carriageway as a race track during the evenings?. So "entirely probable" that the safe driver may meet a twit head on at three times the posted 30 limit, or in the 40 limit, its still one hell of a head-to-head if it happens. Does it happen?.. about three times a year. One local set of lights has a head-to-head or "T" bone at about once a month, mostly sub 50mph, sometimes over. Its a well known "What red?.." junction, I have counted up to six vehicles go through after red, and they all glare at me for daring to sound my horn. keep in mind my response to a twit saying that the cure for our traffic problems was to put in photo radar ticketing , was to say we should put in photo radar, and if we catch somebody speeding, ask him how he accomplished it. perhaps a person who thinks the reason it takes a half hour to go five miles is because people are speeding should be in the how stupid file?
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Post by the light works on Oct 7, 2017 12:31:17 GMT
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Post by GTCGreg on Oct 7, 2017 14:02:41 GMT
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Post by the light works on Oct 7, 2017 14:32:49 GMT
nope, nothing political in it at all.
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Post by silverdragon on Oct 8, 2017 7:47:38 GMT
...And [posts above] this is why in UK, they now have a separate test for vehicles pulling a trailer. Why is it that people pulling a trailer believe it will follow them just like a puppy?. Why is it that they believe it wont push pull wiggle rattle roll and otherwise unsettle the car?. Lack of experience. And that is why the test, you now need to pass that test before you can tow a trailer over 750kgs. Max combination weight 3,500kgs. Or something like that. Exacts www.gov.uk/towing-with-carI dont understand KGS all that well, but, I have a licence that says I can tow... well, no surprise there, being it allows me 44 ton in Imperial?. What I DO Know is any trailer exceeding the weight of the towing vehicle need expert knowledge.
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Post by OziRiS on Oct 8, 2017 14:20:33 GMT
...And [posts above] this is why in UK, they now have a separate test for vehicles pulling a trailer. Why is it that people pulling a trailer believe it will follow them just like a puppy?. Why is it that they believe it wont push pull wiggle rattle roll and otherwise unsettle the car?. Lack of experience. And that is why the test, you now need to pass that test before you can tow a trailer over 750kgs. Max combination weight 3,500kgs. Or something like that. Exacts www.gov.uk/towing-with-carI dont understand KGS all that well, but, I have a licence that says I can tow... well, no surprise there, being it allows me 44 ton in Imperial?. What I DO Know is any trailer exceeding the weight of the towing vehicle need expert knowledge. That rule never made any sense to me! Sure, it's a good idea to place limits on how heavy a vehicle you can drive on any given license, but weight is far from the only issue. As soon as you hitch a trailer to a vehicle, it fundamentally changes how that vehicle handles. How can you possibly justify letting any twerp with a regular car license strap what's basically an extra vehicle to their car and then just send them on their merry way with no extra training?! Most people who only have a regular B-type car license (allowing them to drive any vehicle with a weight of up to 3,500kg) don't drive around with a trailer within the first two years of them getting their license, so the first time they try it, they've forgotten every special rule that comes with hitching a trailer to your car. Rule 1: Check the vehicle's registration. What's the GVWR (Gross Vehicle Weight Rating) on it? Just because your car has a trailer hitch and the trailer has a GVWR below 750kg, there's no guarantee your vehicle can legally tow it. If your car has a GVWR of 2,800kg for instance, the 3,500kg rule goes out the window, because the total amount that car is legally allowed to weigh - including the weight of the car itself, cargo, all fluids, passengers and yes, trailer and whatever's on it - is 2,800kg, not 3,500. So, if the car weighs 1,800kg in "driving ready condition", meaning all fluids are topped up and there are no passengers or cargo on board, you can add 1,000kg of weight to it. Also, just because the car's GVWR is 2,800kg and its "driving ready" weight is 1,800kg, that doesn't mean the trailer hitch is approved for 1,000kg, because the manufacturer factored in passenger and cargo weight when they installed the hitch, so it's more likely to be rated for a maximum weight of just 3-400kg. Most people without trailer training and experience either completely forget to check all of this, or they don't really understand how it works. For those who forget it altogether, the only thing they check is whether the plug for the lights on the trailer fits. If it does, they'll strap anything to anything and just go. For those who do remember some of what they learned, the one thing that sticks out to them is the 3,500kg rule. They check the vehicle's own weight, subtract that number from 3,500 and conclude that whatever's left over is how much the trailer is allowed to weigh. Most people forget to add driver and passengers and the weight of whatever cargo they put in the car. Some even forget to add the weight of the trailer itself and think the number they're left with is how much they're allowed to load onto the trailer. They also forget to check the trailer's GVWR and assume any trailer can carry whatever weight they (falsely) think the vehicle is allowed to tow and last but not least, they forget to check the weight limit on the hitch. The result? You now have an 1,800kg vehicle loaded with 3 adult passengers at a combined weight of around 250kg, 200kg of onboard cargo and a 300kg trailer on the hitch with 1,000kg worth of stuff on it (assuming you even weighed your load or just made a somewhat "correct" estimate). The total weight of the vehicle is now 3,550kg, which is well over the 2,800kg limit the vehicle is actually approved for and even slightly over the 3,500kg maximum limit for your license. Worst of all, you have a 1,300kg trailer that's really just approved for 750kg strapped to a hitch that's only designed for a maximum load of 400kg. In other words, you're overloading the trailer by 550kg, the car by 750kg and the hitch - and by extension the chassis it's attached to - by a whopping 900kg! Seriously overloading your vehicle on three separate points and trying to drive that without any kind of special training doesn't sound dangerous at all, does it? Rule 2: Attaching a trailer to a vehicle comes with special speed restrictions. This is another thing people with a regular B license forget as soon as they've passed the test. I frequently see cars with trailers zooming along at regular freeway speeds of 70 to 80mph, because apparently people don't understand the basic physics of "more weight = longer stopping distance". Combine that with the above failure to understand the weight limits for driving with a trailer and you have a potentially VERY serious road hazard on your hands! An overweight vehicle isn't even the only danger when driving too fast with a trailer. An empty or lightly loaded trailer can be just as dangerous at high speeds, because the thing takes on a life of its own whenever it hits a bump in the road. The lighter the trailer, the more likely it is to swerve or even flip over. And let's not even get into wind sensitivity and how many accidents that causes every summer when idiots with caravans try to cross bridges at high speeds... Rule 3: If you can't steer it in reverse, you have no business driving with a trailer AT ALL!!! This isn't law, but it should be if you ask me. Why? Because if you have to be able to demonstrate that you can safely reverse in and out of parking stalls and such to pass the test for the B license and the B license comes with the right to attach a trailer to your car, shouldn't it logically follow that you're also able to demonstrate that you can safely operate your vehicle under all conditions with a trailer attached to it? IMHO, the rules for acquiring a B license should be changed. Either demonstrating that you know and understand the rules for driving with a trailer and can actually do it should be included in the training and test by default, or the right to drive with a trailer should be reserved for people with special training, offered as an optional add on to your driver's education that you pay for separately.
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Post by the light works on Oct 8, 2017 14:36:09 GMT
...And [posts above] this is why in UK, they now have a separate test for vehicles pulling a trailer. Why is it that people pulling a trailer believe it will follow them just like a puppy?. Why is it that they believe it wont push pull wiggle rattle roll and otherwise unsettle the car?. Lack of experience. And that is why the test, you now need to pass that test before you can tow a trailer over 750kgs. Max combination weight 3,500kgs. Or something like that. Exacts www.gov.uk/towing-with-carI dont understand KGS all that well, but, I have a licence that says I can tow... well, no surprise there, being it allows me 44 ton in Imperial?. What I DO Know is any trailer exceeding the weight of the towing vehicle need expert knowledge. Ironically, the passenger's explanation for the friday night crash was that the (small, empty) boat trailer skidded on the corner and caused them to lose control. and to clarify, had I been the tow driver, I would have asked a couple firemen to pick up the boat trailer and toss it into the back of the pickup, before I pulled the pickup onto the flatbed.
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Post by the light works on Oct 8, 2017 14:50:47 GMT
...And [posts above] this is why in UK, they now have a separate test for vehicles pulling a trailer. Why is it that people pulling a trailer believe it will follow them just like a puppy?. Why is it that they believe it wont push pull wiggle rattle roll and otherwise unsettle the car?. Lack of experience. And that is why the test, you now need to pass that test before you can tow a trailer over 750kgs. Max combination weight 3,500kgs. Or something like that. Exacts www.gov.uk/towing-with-carI dont understand KGS all that well, but, I have a licence that says I can tow... well, no surprise there, being it allows me 44 ton in Imperial?. What I DO Know is any trailer exceeding the weight of the towing vehicle need expert knowledge. That rule never made any sense to me! Sure, it's a good idea to place limits on how heavy a vehicle you can drive on any given license, but weight is far from the only issue. As soon as you hitch a trailer to a vehicle, it fundamentally changes how that vehicle handles. How can you possibly justify letting any twerp with a regular car license strap what's basically an extra vehicle to their car and then just send them on their merry way with no extra training?! Most people who only have a regular B-type car license (allowing them to drive any vehicle with a weight of up to 3,500kg) don't drive around with a trailer within the first two years of them getting their license, so the first time they try it, they've forgotten every special rule that comes with hitching a trailer to your car. Rule 1: Check the vehicle's registration. What's the GVWR (Gross Vehicle Weight Rating) on it? Just because your car has a trailer hitch and the trailer has a GVWR below 750kg, there's no guarantee your vehicle can legally tow it. If your car has a GVWR of 2,800kg for instance, the 3,500kg rule goes out the window, because the total amount that car is legally allowed to weigh - including the weight of the car itself, cargo, all fluids, passengers and yes, trailer and whatever's on it - is 2,800kg, not 3,500. So, if the car weighs 1,800kg in "driving ready condition", meaning all fluids are topped up and there are no passengers or cargo on board, you can add 1,000kg of weight to it. Also, just because the car's GVWR is 2,800kg and its "driving ready" weight is 1,800kg, that doesn't mean the trailer hitch is approved for 1,000kg, because the manufacturer factored in passenger and cargo weight when they installed the hitch, so it's more likely to be rated for a maximum weight of just 3-400kg. Most people without trailer training and experience either completely forget to check all of this, or they don't really understand how it works. For those who forget it altogether, the only thing they check is whether the plug for the lights on the trailer fits. If it does, they'll strap anything to anything and just go. For those who do remember some of what they learned, the one thing that sticks out to them is the 3,500kg rule. They check the vehicle's own weight, subtract that number from 3,500 and conclude that whatever's left over is how much the trailer is allowed to weigh. Most people forget to add driver and passengers and the weight of whatever cargo they put in the car. Some even forget to add the weight of the trailer itself and think the number they're left with is how much they're allowed to load onto the trailer. They also forget to check the trailer's GVWR and assume any trailer can carry whatever weight they (falsely) think the vehicle is allowed to tow and last but not least, they forget to check the weight limit on the hitch. The result? You now have an 1,800kg vehicle loaded with 3 adult passengers at a combined weight of around 250kg, 200kg of onboard cargo and a 300kg trailer on the hitch with 1,000kg worth of stuff on it (assuming you even weighed your load or just made a somewhat "correct" estimate). The total weight of the vehicle is now 3,550kg, which is well over the 2,800kg limit the vehicle is actually approved for and even slightly over the 3,500kg maximum limit for your license. Worst of all, you have a 1,300kg trailer that's really just approved for 750kg strapped to a hitch that's only designed for a maximum load of 400kg. In other words, you're overloading the trailer by 550kg, the car by 750kg and the hitch - and by extension the chassis it's attached to - by a whopping 900kg! Seriously overloading your vehicle on three separate points and trying to drive that without any kind of special training doesn't sound dangerous at all, does it? Rule 2: Attaching a trailer to a vehicle comes with special speed restrictions. This is another thing people with a regular B license forget as soon as they've passed the test. I frequently see cars with trailers zooming along at regular freeway speeds of 70 to 80mph, because apparently people don't understand the basic physics of "more weight = longer stopping distance". Combine that with the above failure to understand the weight limits for driving with a trailer and you have a potentially VERY serious road hazard on your hands! An overweight vehicle isn't even the only danger when driving too fast with a trailer. An empty or lightly loaded trailer can be just as dangerous at high speeds, because the thing takes on a life of its own whenever it hits a bump in the road. The lighter the trailer, the more likely it is to swerve or even flip over. And let's not even get into wind sensitivity and how many accidents that causes every summer when idiots with caravans try to cross bridges at high speeds... Rule 3: If you can't steer it in reverse, you have no business driving with a trailer AT ALL!!! This isn't law, but it should be if you ask me. Why? Because if you have to be able to demonstrate that you can safely reverse in and out of parking stalls and such to pass the test for the B license and the B license comes with the right to attach a trailer to your car, shouldn't it logically follow that you're also able to demonstrate that you can safely operate your vehicle under all conditions with a trailer attached to it? IMHO, the rules for acquiring a B license should be changed. Either demonstrating that you know and understand the rules for driving with a trailer and can actually do it should be included in the training and test by default, or the right to drive with a trailer should be reserved for people with special training, offered as an optional add on to your driver's education that you pay for separately. now consider that in the US, most places, a driver's license allows you to drive any vehicle with a steering wheel as long as it is for personal use. (and may be legally driven at all)
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Post by OziRiS on Oct 9, 2017 0:33:25 GMT
now consider that in the US, most places, a driver's license allows you to drive any vehicle with a steering wheel as long as it is for personal use. (and may be legally driven at all) I stand corrected. I thought our laws were insane, but they're only flawed. THAT'S insane!!!
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Post by the light works on Oct 9, 2017 0:37:37 GMT
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Post by the light works on Oct 9, 2017 0:40:50 GMT
now consider that in the US, most places, a driver's license allows you to drive any vehicle with a steering wheel as long as it is for personal use. (and may be legally driven at all) I stand corrected. I thought our laws were insane, but they're only flawed. THAT'S insane!!! of course, I was towing a two ton trailer while I was still driving on a learner's permit... (at the time, you were eligible to get a learner's permit, and drive supervised by a licensed adult at 15, and eligible to get your license at 16)
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Post by GTCGreg on Oct 9, 2017 2:45:00 GMT
I stand corrected. I thought our laws were insane, but they're only flawed. THAT'S insane!!! of course, I was towing a two ton trailer while I was still driving on a learner's permit... (at the time, you were eligible to get a learner's permit, and drive supervised by a licensed adult at 15, and eligible to get your license at 16) When I got my learner's permit, I don't recall any restrictions as to type or size of vehicles. Just that I had to have an adult driver in the vehicle. After I got my license, I believe that it did exclude semi tractor-trailers.
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Post by silverdragon on Oct 9, 2017 7:42:37 GMT
The ideal of the UK and europe towing test is to attract those who want to know what they are doing to further their education to get a tuition on how to do it properly. Therefore, those who have an interest, will take the test, and learn how to tow. Whilst not just saying "You cant do that", but "Restricting" them to smaller less damaging trailers until they do. The authorities have learnt that this attracts more flies with Honey that Cr@p, in that an outright ban on all trailers "Until you comply" is not beneficial. The fact there is any restriction on size at all, is the first step, towards a public education program, that towing is an art form, and not just any Joe-Danger who "Thinks he knows what he is doing" can just hitch up and run with it. The fact that some of the Caravan and Camping club were "Up in arms" about it, even though, all of them that held licences at that time, were exempt, because they held "Grandfather rights" to older licence and the new test restriction only covered new licences, show the resilience that many drivers have to new regulations. So why do we have here in UK and europe size restrictions on vehicles you are allowed to drive in the first place?. Take the "American way". You can pass your test in a Stupid [tm] and then drive something the size of a 12 tonner "For personal use", or a coach-derived-Camper-van, roughly 10 times the size of the car you pass your test in?. and do that on the day you pass your test?. Well slap me with a damp squid and call me Joanna if that isnt slightly dumb if not actually stupid.?. "For personal use".... Now this has caused some arguments. In USA, they believe "For personal use" negates the restrictions put in place for commercial drivers. So, for personal use, if the commercial licence has a weight restriction, if your "Moving home" in a camper van, you load it until the suspension groans?. If the speed limit is 50mph for commercial vehicles on a 60 road, or like the UK, 55mph tops for any commercial heavy goods vehicles, "your good to go" at whatever speed you can wrench out of that over-stressed engine. As long as it doesnt breach the posted limit, get a wiggle on... If the commercial drivers are limited to 10 hrs Maximum driving in one day, yep, your "Private", dont apply to you at all, why not do a 24hr stint at the wheel as long as you can stay awake that long?. Again, if it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck?.. If the vehicle is the same size weight and engine power as a commercial vehicle, shouldnt it be covered by the same laws?. Yeah, sure, some amercian "Land yacht" cars are as big as many light vans on this side of the pond, I accept that. But when you get to the heavy stuff, those over say 30ft long, they corner differently, dont take bends in the road the same, need to be driven with care down steep "grades" [we call 'em hills around here?..] and you need a little help to get used to them. The "Lower reaches" of this side of the ponds extra classes on your licences are more about your wish to turn up and get educated rather than the desire to drum rules into your head. Basically, if you turn up and show you are willing to learn, and learn sensibly, show respect for what you are driving, and other road users as well, then its fait accompli that you will get a "pass", just as long as you can classroom show you understand the changes in law as the weight and size goes up... Such as the lower-than-posted speed restrictions for heavy vehicles that says a posted limit of 40 is still 30 for a 10 ton vehicle. The higher reaches of over 10 tons type vehicles, you have to show "Professionalism" in that you know what you are doing before you pass the test. So, the idea that you can tow without restrictions, a 52seat coach sized vehicle on a normal car drivers licence, yeah, thats kinda strange over here.
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Post by silverdragon on Oct 9, 2017 7:50:26 GMT
Additional. There is a "Push" under way that like the Bike tests, there should be restrictions on Horse power for all new drivers. Again back to the idea of the small sub-compact "citi" micro machine cars, and driving one of them to pass a test. Next day, "If you can afford it", there is no restriction to driving a Lamborghini. Note the number of wrecked within 48hrs of owning news stories that can be found... All of them are the problems of not knowing that power requires respect. You feather in the throttle on a powerful engine, unlike a micro-machine, its a whole lot more than an on/off switch, and many new drivers dont understand that.
Maybe in the past, when we had a lot more space, and super-cars were well less than 500 horses, there was road space to learn that control. But now, with 4 times as much traffic as when I was younger, and 1,000 horse cars on the road?.
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Post by silverdragon on Oct 9, 2017 8:13:28 GMT
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Post by OziRiS on Oct 9, 2017 10:48:30 GMT
I stand corrected. I thought our laws were insane, but they're only flawed. THAT'S insane!!! of course, I was towing a two ton trailer while I was still driving on a learner's permit... (at the time, you were eligible to get a learner's permit, and drive supervised by a licensed adult at 15, and eligible to get your license at 16) And that's another thing I never understood about US law. You're considered old enough to handle multiple ton vehicles - many of which are capable of moving at 100+ mph - when you're just 16 years old, but you can't legally buy a beer before you're 21. Is there any logic to that at all and if there is, could someone please explain it to me? Seems to me the smarter move would be to reverse the order there, so you have the opportunity to learn how alcohol affects your mind and body before you're allowed to get behind the wheel of a vehicle.
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