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Post by ironhold on Sept 27, 2014 19:37:30 GMT
The water trap takes place in the bathroom of the mansion where the #1 mafioso lives.
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Post by the light works on Sept 27, 2014 20:59:48 GMT
The water trap takes place in the bathroom of the mansion where the #1 mafioso lives. okay, good chance the plumbing is grounded. that leaves the question of whether it will deliver a fatal shock - and that very much depends on the victim. friend of mine got electrocuted her first day of electrician class - decided it would be a good idea to change careers. I've been shocked by up to 277 and had no trouble other than the immediate reaction. addendum: I am assuming the device in question has an exposed live contact, and does not short to ground by another path. |
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Post by ironhold on Sept 27, 2014 21:16:20 GMT
The victim had just gotten out of the shower (which is why he hadn't heard anyone come in), and so was wet from head to toe.
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Post by the light works on Sept 27, 2014 21:46:23 GMT
The victim had just gotten out of the shower (which is why he hadn't heard anyone come in), and so was wet from head to toe. more relevant - his skin was thoroughly saturated with water. (I see where I got the big box store - I was mixing this with your equalizer thread.) |
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Post by ironhold on Sept 27, 2014 21:58:03 GMT
so:
*victim was wet from just having showered
*victim had a metal faucet (IIRC) that was running to the point that the sink was overflowing, causing the water to spill onto the floor
*an electrical device of some type (looked almost like the internal components themselves minus the casing) on the floor inside the puddle of water formed by the sink.
victim does not see the device on the floor because he is distracted. Instead, he goes to shut off the faucet and steps on the device while his hand is on the faucet's knob. the circuit is complete, and the hero has offed him without laying a hand on him. were it not for the dead guards we see as the hero leaves, there would be virtually no sign that the hero was even there.
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Post by Cybermortis on Sept 28, 2014 0:20:46 GMT
One note; My Bothan has in the past hinted that electrical myths have given MB pause for thought. This, surprisingly, has nothing to do with preference or safety but the viewers. It seems that people complain because with electrical myths they expect Hollywood style sparks to come flying out of the wires and/or victim.
So the major problem with electric myths is in trying to figure out how to show that the electricity was fatal in an interesting way - Yes you could use a meter but watching a needle move isn't really all that interesting for the average viewer.
Anyone who can come up with a viable, visual and very impressive way to show that the voltage would have been fatal (and even better something that could be reused for different voltages*) would probably be worshiped. OK, maybe just mentioned in passing in the MB office...if your name was attached to the idea, and they don't forget the name.
(*Yes I know voltage and amperage are somewhat different things. But you get the idea I'm sure)
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Post by the light works on Sept 28, 2014 0:59:16 GMT
One note; My Bothan has in the past hinted that electrical myths have given MB pause for thought. This, surprisingly, has nothing to do with preference or safety but the viewers. It seems that people complain because with electrical myths they expect Hollywood style sparks to come flying out of the wires and/or victim. So the major problem with electric myths is in trying to figure out how to show that the electricity was fatal in an interesting way - Yes you could use a meter but watching a needle move isn't really all that interesting for the average viewer. Anyone who can come up with a viable, visual and very impressive way to show that the voltage would have been fatal (and even better something that could be reused for different voltages*) would probably be worshiped. OK, maybe just mentioned in passing in the MB office...if your name was attached to the idea, and they don't forget the name. (*Yes I know voltage and amperage are somewhat different things. But you get the idea I'm sure) the exploding device they used in the bathtub myth seems to be the best option. my best would be a modern fluorescent fixture with a multivolt ballast - they are rated for 120-277 volts - and I know from experience they can still light up at under 120V. the only challenge left is that they take rather more amperage than is necessary to trigger fibrillation, even in a healthy subject. seems to me the critical component would be a signal amplifier system which amplifies the current from the amount necessary to kill a person to the current necessary to produce a visual display. - which, if they made it robust enough could operate at multiple voltages - and they could demonstrate by showing how sufficient current to illuminate a low powered LED was amplified to enough to - well, does Jamie want big boom? |
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Post by silverdragon on Sept 28, 2014 8:45:37 GMT
One note; My Bothan has in the past hinted that electrical myths have given MB pause for thought. This, surprisingly, has nothing to do with preference or safety but the viewers. It seems that people complain because with electrical myths they expect Hollywood style sparks to come flying out of the wires and/or victim. So the major problem with electric myths is in trying to figure out how to show that the electricity was fatal in an interesting way - Yes you could use a meter but watching a needle move isn't really all that interesting for the average viewer. Anyone who can come up with a viable, visual and very impressive way to show that the voltage would have been fatal (and even better something that could be reused for different voltages*) would probably be worshiped. OK, maybe just mentioned in passing in the MB office...if your name was attached to the idea, and they don't forget the name. (*Yes I know voltage and amperage are somewhat different things. But you get the idea I'm sure) I have an idea, but it may be slightly tricky. Its down to the ampage and all that, this may require some sideways thinking, and maybe a battery in for the actual blast, but, start with a small measuring device circuit board that only "Fires" when the shock gets to "Dangerous" level, much like the RCD device used to pop plug circuits, and on the triggered side of that, attach a small cartridge of flash powder, the type used in old style Photography, you could always use and actual powder flash gun?.., and put that between two "Contacts" across the area of the ballistic gel Dummy's "heart" If the current reaches "Dangerous" level, the small electronics allow the flash powder to detonate. If built right, this could be reusable, just add more powder..... (And a fresh battery...) (Shame they lost Grant, he would have had that built by the time I stop describing it?..) Of course, the dummy now becomes a explosion risk..... but heck, you seen those old Photography flash guns?... there is a reason they call 'em Gun... they "Fire" gunpowder.... as if they weren't dangerous enough. That was with a single read through of your post Cyber, Tell them, if you want more, all they have to do is ask..... (We occasionally have good idea's, no?..) Again, TLW's idea above, to make that work, get something "Sensing" that triggers the actual effect?... the actual flash-bang may have to have its own power to work, but, as long as they make sure to describe the needed trigger point and how its triggered, the audience loce special effects.... even if they only half understand how it works, if someone who sounds like he knows what he is doing tells them with authority, they will accept. With a small PCB that senses the required electrical levels to cause fatality, and that firing a larger flash-bang, the thing is re-usable. |
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Post by ironhold on Sept 28, 2014 21:50:52 GMT
Back when I was taking high school physics, both physics teachers would cook hot dogs for the class using electricity. It involved shiny, clean nails being inserted into each end of the hot dog, with the nails then being connected to the terminals of an electrical device of some sort (it was the kind that we used when we did experiments; we plugged it in to the wall outlets and hooked up our circuits to it).
If the amount of juice needed to cook meat is anywhere near the amount needed to kill someone, then the team could rig up a piece of meat and show it getting fried.
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Post by OziRiS on Sept 28, 2014 22:05:55 GMT
I like SD's idea of something giving off a small explosion, but would like to elaborate on it.
Why not make a dummy, put a hole in its chest where the heart should be, set up the little explosive device in the back of that hole and place a water balloon filled with "blood" in front of it, so that the balloon will burst when the explosion is set off? If an exploding heart isn't spectacular, I don't know what is.
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Post by the light works on Sept 29, 2014 2:19:53 GMT
Back when I was taking high school physics, both physics teachers would cook hot dogs for the class using electricity. It involved shiny, clean nails being inserted into each end of the hot dog, with the nails then being connected to the terminals of an electrical device of some sort (it was the kind that we used when we did experiments; we plugged it in to the wall outlets and hooked up our circuits to it). If the amount of juice needed to cook meat is anywhere near the amount needed to kill someone, then the team could rig up a piece of meat and show it getting fried. I believe it takes significantly more to heat a hot dog, but unfortunately, my bratwurst is nearly cooked, so I can't measure right now. according to the interwebz, a cooking hot dog will have a peak current draw up to 1.4 amps. it takes half a milliamp to trigger fibrillation. (on average, across the heart, etc.) web.physics.ucsb.edu/~lecturedemonstrations/Composer/Pages/64.24.htmlwww.evilmadscientist.com/2007/cooking-hot-dogs-via-electrocution/so we would still want some sort of amplifier. |
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Post by silverdragon on Sept 29, 2014 6:48:09 GMT
I like SD's idea of something giving off a small explosion, but would like to elaborate on it. Why not make a dummy, put a hole in its chest where the heart should be, set up the little explosive device in the back of that hole and place a water balloon filled with "blood" in front of it, so that the balloon will burst when the explosion is set off? If an exploding heart isn't spectacular, I don't know what is. Painting with Explosives, the re-visit?... I like the idea, explosion AND flying paint..... |
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Post by OziRiS on Sept 29, 2014 8:05:53 GMT
I like SD's idea of something giving off a small explosion, but would like to elaborate on it. Why not make a dummy, put a hole in its chest where the heart should be, set up the little explosive device in the back of that hole and place a water balloon filled with "blood" in front of it, so that the balloon will burst when the explosion is set off? If an exploding heart isn't spectacular, I don't know what is. Painting with Explosives, the re-visit?... I like the idea, explosion AND flying paint..... Only question then becomes, will that spawn a new myth of its own? I can just imagine all the n00b idiots going, "Gettin shocked explodes da hart! Da Mythbusterz proveded it!" Of course you could get ahead of that by having Adam or Jamie explain it's just for visual effect and won't actually happen in real life, but you know as well as me that some dunce will ask the question anyway... |
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Post by silverdragon on Sept 29, 2014 8:31:49 GMT
Let 'em ask..... I sure as hell could be quite happy pointing them to our thread and how we worked out how to make it happen?.....
But then again, myth on its own, what could make "Da Hart exploded"....
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Post by Cybermortis on Sept 29, 2014 11:44:19 GMT
The problem with an explosion is that they might not be allowed to do such tests in the shop, no matter how small it might be, or at least would require an expert to be on hand during filming. It would certainly add a degree of complexity (production and planning wise) to what should be a fairly simple type of test.
Is there a device that could be configured to create plasma or sparks in a sealed container at the right voltage/amperage? Or maybe a device that could be activated by the right amount of voltage/amperage - I'm thinking that it might be easier and more straightforward to create an electrical circuit that activated something else. If the circuity is simple enough they could either build them into any test subjects from the start and leave them in place until testing. Or connect the circuit up just before testing without having to concern themselves on the 'alarm' system which would be separate. This would also allow them to remove safety as a major concern, as the 'alarm' would pose no risk (and could be disconnected by pulling the plug from a distance) and could be moved to a safe place and left there until testing was done.
Maybe add in a small speaker that gives off a scream when the alarm is triggered, for comedy effect.
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Post by the light works on Sept 29, 2014 14:22:34 GMT
The problem with an explosion is that they might not be allowed to do such tests in the shop, no matter how small it might be, or at least would require an expert to be on hand during filming. It would certainly add a degree of complexity (production and planning wise) to what should be a fairly simple type of test. Is there a device that could be configured to create plasma or sparks in a sealed container at the right voltage/amperage? Or maybe a device that could be activated by the right amount of voltage/amperage - I'm thinking that it might be easier and more straightforward to create an electrical circuit that activated something else. If the circuity is simple enough they could either build them into any test subjects from the start and leave them in place until testing. Or connect the circuit up just before testing without having to concern themselves on the 'alarm' system which would be separate. This would also allow them to remove safety as a major concern, as the 'alarm' would pose no risk (and could be disconnected by pulling the plug from a distance) and could be moved to a safe place and left there until testing was done. Maybe add in a small speaker that gives off a scream when the alarm is triggered, for comedy effect. the direct amperage within established safety limits can illuminate a very small light (not incandescent) - as demonstrated by receptacle testers used to test GFCI protected receptacles. however, a very small light illuminating is not very impressive, hence the need for an amplifier. once you have the amplifier, you can put in any effect you want. |
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Post by ironhold on Sept 29, 2014 14:31:30 GMT
Idea:
The team hooks the "heart" up to a toaster.
If the device activates (which should be apparent by the smell of cooking bread), then we know that the victim would be well and truly "toasted". And I doubt that the insurance people would have much of an issue with a mundane kitchen appliance being used for the myth.
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Post by the light works on Sept 29, 2014 14:46:34 GMT
Idea: The team hooks the "heart" up to a toaster. If the device activates (which should be apparent by the smell of cooking bread), then we know that the victim would be well and truly "toasted". And I doubt that the insurance people would have much of an issue with a mundane kitchen appliance being used for the myth. and Adam gets a snack addendum: it will have to be an old toaster - new ones release the bread if they don't have power. |
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Post by OziRiS on Sept 29, 2014 17:20:53 GMT
The problem with an explosion is that they might not be allowed to do such tests in the shop, no matter how small it might be, or at least would require an expert to be on hand during filming. It would certainly add a degree of complexity (production and planning wise) to what should be a fairly simple type of test. Is there a device that could be configured to create plasma or sparks in a sealed container at the right voltage/amperage? Or maybe a device that could be activated by the right amount of voltage/amperage - I'm thinking that it might be easier and more straightforward to create an electrical circuit that activated something else. If the circuity is simple enough they could either build them into any test subjects from the start and leave them in place until testing. Or connect the circuit up just before testing without having to concern themselves on the 'alarm' system which would be separate. This would also allow them to remove safety as a major concern, as the 'alarm' would pose no risk (and could be disconnected by pulling the plug from a distance) and could be moved to a safe place and left there until testing was done. Maybe add in a small speaker that gives off a scream when the alarm is triggered, for comedy effect. Doesn't have to be a large explosion. Could just be a squib and a blood pack. |
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Post by Cybermortis on Sept 29, 2014 18:02:57 GMT
They are still explosive charges and for insurance reasons would have to be fitted by a qualified individual.
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