|
|
Post by Cybermortis on Sept 22, 2014 20:26:17 GMT
Just picked up a rumor that MB might have or may be doing an episode on booby traps - my source wasn't exactly specific.
Wondering what myths on this you lot think they might be doing? Or if you had any examples of (testable) booby trap myths you'd like to see?
|
|
|
|
Post by OziRiS on Sept 22, 2014 21:40:33 GMT
I'd like to see some of the ones from 'First Blood', the first movie in the Rambo series. There were some pretty nasty ones in there but, IIRC, some of them were a little dubious. It's been a long time since I've seen the movie, but I remember something about some very deep pits with stakes in them and I find it doubtful at best that Rambo would have had time to make some of them, not to mention camouflage them well enough that they'd actually work the way they were pictured.
|
|
|
|
Post by the light works on Sept 22, 2014 23:55:54 GMT
I'm thinking the classic bent tree with an ankle noose would be a fun one. might require the redman suit for actual testing, though.
there is an old trick of putting a large ziptie on the driveline of a vehicle - but legend has it you can it just far enough from the frame that it doesn't hit anything until the car goes around a corner - with gyroscopic force deflecting it enough to strike the frame.
there was an earlier discussion of the paint cans from Home Alone - whether they would swing as implied.
There was a legend when I was in college that a student - tired of being bullied by people urinating on his door, electrified the door by connecting one wire to the doorknob, and placing the other on the carpet - shades of third rail.
does cutting the brake lines actually cause the vehicle to drive normally at first, and then abruptly lose all braking? (seen in multiple movies)
can you set up a real-life "Fibber McGee closet"? (Fibber McGee was an old radio show in which one recurring joke was Fibber opening the closet and all the contents falling out with a clatter)
|
|
|
|
Post by GTCGreg on Sept 23, 2014 0:57:59 GMT
can you set up a real-life "Fibber McGee closet"? (Fibber McGee was an old radio show in which one recurring joke was Fibber opening the closet and all the contents falling out with a clatter) I know that's possible. We have one of those closets. |
|
|
|
Post by Cybermortis on Sept 23, 2014 12:11:56 GMT
I'd like to see some of the ones from 'First Blood', the first movie in the Rambo series. There were some pretty nasty ones in there but, IIRC, some of them were a little dubious. It's been a long time since I've seen the movie, but I remember something about some very deep pits with stakes in them and I find it doubtful at best that Rambo would have had time to make some of them, not to mention camouflage them well enough that they'd actually work the way they were pictured. From what I can recall the traps used in the film were real, or at least the same types used in Vietnam. And yes, you can camouflage such traps very well and fairly easily. Time to construct, probably a few hours if that. These are fairly simple designs - although they were probably somewhat larger in the film than in real life. What about the traps in Predator? |
|
|
|
Post by the light works on Sept 23, 2014 15:39:42 GMT
I'd like to see some of the ones from 'First Blood', the first movie in the Rambo series. There were some pretty nasty ones in there but, IIRC, some of them were a little dubious. It's been a long time since I've seen the movie, but I remember something about some very deep pits with stakes in them and I find it doubtful at best that Rambo would have had time to make some of them, not to mention camouflage them well enough that they'd actually work the way they were pictured. From what I can recall the traps used in the film were real, or at least the same types used in Vietnam. And yes, you can camouflage such traps very well and fairly easily. Time to construct, probably a few hours if that. These are fairly simple designs - although they were probably somewhat larger in the film than in real life. What about the traps in Predator? That sort of traps often rely on the victim being in a hurry and distracted. about which I can say if you have a distracted victim, you don't have to camouflage a hole very well to have it be effective. |
|
|
|
Post by ironhold on Sept 24, 2014 1:26:05 GMT
If we're talking about "Home Alone" myths, I can tell you now that unless the team was looking at some serious quid pro quo then it would likely not be feasible for them to test the Micro Machines trap.
Vintage vehicles from that era can go for $10+ each online, meaning that the team would be looking at a couple hundred dollars just for this one test. And since Hasbro hasn't released any new official product since 2006, using "new" vehicles would mean using off-brand items, and in so doing they'd potentially introduce variables that might affect the myth. For example, the die-cast vehicles you can get at Wal-Mart don't always roll as freely as the vintage Micro Machine vehicles of the era. (And the "Speed-Eez" brand from about a decade ago is right out, as most vehicles had a ball bearing in addition to the wheels; those things could put a Johnny Lightning car to shame if the bearing was kept in good shape and no debris clogged the opening.)
|
|
|
|
Post by rmc on Sept 24, 2014 3:41:41 GMT
I've often suspected that your typical "covered hole" type of trap really needs to be complicated by an overgrowth of very nearby brush and bushes. I could be wrong, but, at least for me, walking up to a clearing and finding a lot of dead branches and palm leaves piled in an area, (otherwise clear) would be the LAST place I'd walk.
So, I'd say I challenge the oft-held notion that Hollywood seems to have regarding the Booby Trap... That a covered hole could be an effective means for trapping someone when placed in an open clearing (the clearing being used more likely because it's easier to shoot and tell the story with pictures than it being all that realistic)
In other words, a real booby trap of this sort would be in brush dense enough to make it hard to see... And yes, sometimes people DO charge through dense brush.... I know we did in training. Plus, there are a lot of trails that are so narrow within dense brush they look like some sort of slash in the bushes than any sort of open trail. In this case, the camera crew has a hard time telling the story with pictures, but, that's where you'd likely find this sort of booby trap! I say it's just about impossible to hide a booby trap of this sort in an open area or along an open trail -- that's my two-cents worth of mythdom here. So, build your best trap out in the open and see if anyone sees it easily or not. (building such a trap with the limitations a field soldier may have)
|
|
|
|
Post by the light works on Sept 24, 2014 13:34:51 GMT
I've often suspected that your typical "covered hole" type of trap really needs to be complicated by an overgrowth of very nearby brush and bushes. I could be wrong, but, at least for me, walking up to a clearing and finding a lot of dead branches and palm leaves piled in an area, (otherwise clear) would be the LAST place I'd walk. So, I'd say I challenge the oft-held notion that Hollywood seems to have regarding the Booby Trap... That a covered hole could be an effective means for trapping someone when placed in an open clearing (the clearing being used more likely because it's easier to shoot and tell the story with pictures than it being all that realistic) In other words, a real booby trap of this sort would be in brush dense enough to make it hard to see... And yes, sometimes people DO charge through dense brush.... I know we did in training. Plus, there are a lot of trails that are so narrow within dense brush they look like some sort of slash in the bushes than any sort of open trail. In this case, the camera crew has a hard time telling the story with pictures, but, that's where you'd likely find this sort of booby trap! I say it's just about impossible to hide a booby trap of this sort in an open area or along an open trail -- that's my two-cents worth of mythdom here. So, build your best trap out in the open and see if anyone sees it easily or not. (building such a trap with the limitations a field soldier may have) like I said - if the victim is distracted, it makes it a lot easier to camouflage the trap. |
|
|
|
Post by Cybermortis on Sept 24, 2014 14:34:50 GMT
I guess the problem they had is in finding traps that are questionable in nature (that is not actually used or have been used in the real world, or at least not well documented) AND where there is no concern about someone being able to duplicate the traps at home - many of those I can think of would be alarmingly easy to duplicate and very hard to hide how they are made on screen.
|
|
|
|
Post by the light works on Sept 24, 2014 15:05:54 GMT
I guess the problem they had is in finding traps that are questionable in nature (that is not actually used or have been used in the real world, or at least not well documented) AND where there is no concern about someone being able to duplicate the traps at home - many of those I can think of would be alarmingly easy to duplicate and very hard to hide how they are made on screen. right - we went over that same thing on the home alone thread. |
|
|
|
Post by the light works on Sept 24, 2014 15:13:23 GMT
they could do the painted scene trap from the old bugs bunny/road runner cartoons. print a photograph on a paper mural, put it so it looks line the actual scenery and see if the victim walks or runs into the paper.
they could test the grenade tripwire - where you tie a string between a tree and a grenade, and a person walking by kicks the string and triggers the grenade. - they could check whether he would actually trip it, AND whether he would notice and get away in time.
|
|
|
|
Post by OziRiS on Sept 25, 2014 6:56:02 GMT
they could do the painted scene trap from the old bugs bunny/road runner cartoons. print a photograph on a paper mural, put it so it looks line the actual scenery and see if the victim walks or runs into the paper. they could test the grenade tripwire - where you tie a string between a tree and a grenade, and a person walking by kicks the string and triggers the grenade. - they could check whether he would actually trip it, AND whether he would notice and get away in time. The Hollywood version where the safety pin is all the way in and nothing's been done to it: Busted! Can't be done. Like I said in a previous thread where someone mentioned the Hollywood thing of having grenades hanging off your webbing by the safety pins, they're called safety pins for a reason. You have to twist and pull, not just pull, and it requires a significant amount of force. This doesn't mean the grenade trap is impossible, though. All you have to do is pull the pin until it's only hanging on by a few millimeters and tape/tie down the spoon, so it doesn't give you too much resistance. Then you tape/tie the grenade to something solid that won't move when someone trips the wire and you're good to go. I've created alarm mines like that with exercise grenades plenty of times. |
|
|
|
Post by silverdragon on Sept 25, 2014 9:59:06 GMT
Cutting brake lines... plausible.
(Large part removed for reasons below)the system leaks every time you use the brakes, enough to only leak under pressure, the reservoir will refill the line.
When the reservoir runs out, you get Air in the line....
When that gets to the master cylinder, it wont compress, you loose all braking.
There is a trick to it, I have deliberately made the above misleading, I wont go into detail, PM me if you want that trick, I cant put it out for general viewing.
If you just cut the line, you will notice as soon as you try to brake.
|
|
|
|
Post by silverdragon on Sept 25, 2014 10:01:08 GMT
Cant climb out of pits.
How long would it take to build a pit so deep no one could climb out of.
Can that be done without the walls falling in.
Can certain pits be tested to see how easy it is to get out.
Could a competent climber get out of anything but a really smooth sided pit.....
And how hard is that to make.
|
|
|
|
Post by the light works on Sept 25, 2014 13:38:34 GMT
Cutting brake lines... plausible. (Large part removed for reasons below)the system leaks every time you use the brakes, enough to only leak under pressure, the reservoir will refill the line. When the reservoir runs out, you get Air in the line.... When that gets to the master cylinder, it wont compress, you loose all braking. There is a trick to it, I have deliberately made the above misleading, I wont go into detail, PM me if you want that trick, I cant put it out for general viewing. If you just cut the line, you will notice as soon as you try to brake. in the hollywood version, they usually cut a line clear through or unscrew the flare nut that holds it on the master cylinder. I am suspecting what you are referring to is something that is done as a part of brake adjustment, and then finished - if left unfinished, it would lead to a gradual loss of fluid. I have had a leaking brake line before - and it is not an abrupt total disappearance of braking. |
|
|
|
Post by the light works on Sept 25, 2014 13:40:42 GMT
Cant climb out of pits. How long would it take to build a pit so deep no one could climb out of. Can that be done without the walls falling in. Can certain pits be tested to see how easy it is to get out. Could a competent climber get out of anything but a really smooth sided pit..... And how hard is that to make. I have seen a person climb a smooth concrete wall with one hole large enough for one fingertip. however, the average pit trap relies on the walls not being strong enough to support the weight of the victim. presumably the victim could eventually dig himself out, but that would take a while. |
|
|
|
Post by OziRiS on Sept 25, 2014 14:59:58 GMT
Cant climb out of pits. How long would it take to build a pit so deep no one could climb out of. Can that be done without the walls falling in. Can certain pits be tested to see how easy it is to get out. Could a competent climber get out of anything but a really smooth sided pit..... And how hard is that to make. I have seen a person climb a smooth concrete wall with one hole large enough for one fingertip. however, the average pit trap relies on the walls not being strong enough to support the weight of the victim. presumably the victim could eventually dig himself out, but that would take a while. And falling into the pit is likely to cause broken bones, or at least serious sprains, so maybe climbing ain't all that easy once you're in there...? |
|
|
|
Post by ironhold on Sept 27, 2014 1:20:14 GMT
SPOILERS -
I saw "The Equalizer" earlier today, and the film has the main character use several booby traps over the course of the action. This includes several during the climax, where he's fighting off mobsters inside of a blacked-out big-box home improvement store.
A more straight-foward trap has him leave an electrical device of some type (I didn't get a good look) on a bathroom floor and leave the metal faucet running. When the mobster goes to shut off the overflowing sink, he steps on the device and completes the circuit by touching the faucet.
A well-written one comes from the climax. He's left out an obvious trap consisting of a tripwire that's hooked up to a lit acetyline torch that has been placed amid a puddle of flammable liquid. When the mobsters see it, they back away slowly... leaving one of the two to be attacked from behind.
|
|
|
|
Post by the light works on Sept 27, 2014 5:00:35 GMT
SPOILERS - I saw "The Equalizer" earlier today, and the film has the main character use several booby traps over the course of the action. This includes several during the climax, where he's fighting off mobsters inside of a blacked-out big-box home improvement store. A more straight-foward trap has him leave an electrical device of some type (I didn't get a good look) on a bathroom floor and leave the metal faucet running. When the mobster goes to shut off the overflowing sink, he steps on the device and completes the circuit by touching the faucet. A well-written one comes from the climax. He's left out an obvious trap consisting of a tripwire that's hooked up to a lit acetyline torch that has been placed amid a puddle of flammable liquid. When the mobsters see it, they back away slowly... leaving one of the two to be attacked from behind. as far as the electrical device - it is possible only if the store has metallic plumbing. otherwise the plumbing is not a ground. however, if it is an unfinished concrete floor, the BG can get shocked from the device TO THE FLOOR. |
|
