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Post by the light works on Nov 14, 2014 5:41:21 GMT
Fuddruckers is still around, at least in Nebraska. Been to Fuddruckers. Probably one of the best burgers I've ever eaten. It was good, but for what is cost, a T bone steak would have been better. my opinion of them was, for all practical purposes, the same; which is why I have no idea if they are still around or not. |
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Post by silverdragon on Nov 14, 2014 9:14:01 GMT
When a Burger is just a Burger, "Fast food", I fail to see when I can become an expensive option.
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Post by the light works on Nov 14, 2014 15:14:10 GMT
When a Burger is just a Burger, "Fast food", I fail to see when I can become an expensive option. there is a world of difference between a big mac and a real hamburger. |
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Post by silverdragon on Nov 15, 2014 9:55:00 GMT
When a Burger is just a Burger, "Fast food", I fail to see when I can become an expensive option. there is a world of difference between a big mac and a real hamburger. No... Just no. No there isnt. In usual butcher shop practises, What you have is ground beef. You dont waste the good cuts on ground beef. Ground beef for use in burgers are the bits of cow that are only useful if you are a cow.... If you are grinding up perfect Sirloin Steak to make burgers, you are guilty of crimes against food. I know, I can taste the irony already, and we aint even started cooking owt yet.... But Burgers are sausage meat spread out into a loose circle. Oh yes, I will agree, you start adding bread and oats to pad the mix out a bit, "sawdust" is rumoured as an additive as well, "Seasoning", well, "Secret spices" can be anything cant they?... But I agree, some burgers are better than others, and some are just cardboard with a bit of beef juice thrown over for colour and flavour.... But when all is finished, it is NOT a top class Sirloin or T-bone steak is it?... So if you start to get into the realms of selling Burger for the same or above the price of a decent steak, you are into the area of deceit, no burger is truly worth that amount. Nor should it try to be either. As soon as you try to make ground beef better than Steak, you are flogging the spot where a horse once died. Conclusion. Burgers have a roof of ability. The ideal burger will contain good meat, but that will be off cuts miss-shapes that are too damaged to be sold as stewing steak, and that is what they are there for, burgers are the way the butcher maximises the carcase by cutting down on waste. To try and pretend they are much more than that is con artistry at work. We should put cease and desist orders on con artists who try to sell you off cuts of meat for good cut prices. Its a con. Of course, there are cheep burgers. But by the time you get to those, either you have a financial restraint that prevents you buying the good stuff, or, well, we cant pull everyone out of the ditch that is fast food junkie, can we?.... |
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Post by silverdragon on Nov 15, 2014 10:12:00 GMT
Myth to be answered, use the whole cow..
The above post by myself raises a question of what exactly is used in Burger meat....
There was a (busted) myth that McD use the whole cow, lips tail hoofs and all, put the whole carcase on a grinder as it is.
Well I used to work for Mc'D,s yes the do process bones, but not into burgers....
There is a waste bin, yes it is used elsewhere, but not into burgers.
As in, Hides are sold to the Leather trade, of course, so certain animal produce thats useful elsewhere do not go into burgers....
I do not know what the current state of play is, but,
There is a myth of how much of the cow is used.
|Myth states the meat mechanically recovered (Some blasted off the bone by high pressure hose) is all mixed up, because of the number of carcasses being processed they do not have the ability to separate "cuts" of meat as much, so the whole lot is used... plus that adds taste to their burger, because they use ALL the cow and some of it is tasteless.
I do know, or it used to be, they didnt use scrag beef... as in they use good quality beef.
More?.. I dont know, and thats where we get into the myth.
I do not know how other companies operate.
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Post by Cybermortis on Nov 15, 2014 13:07:20 GMT
there is a world of difference between a big mac and a real hamburger. No... Just no. No there isnt. I have to agree with the Yanks on this. Big Mac's use frozen and processed burgers that are the meat equivalent of rice cakes - what flavor they may have comes from whatever they come into contact with. Which is why they smother the burger with various sauces. A real burger (in the US at least) is made and formed just before cooking and doesn't require a buckets worth of sauce to give it flavor. They also use quality meat, and don't involve having to spit chunks of gristle onto your plate. Of course being Americans their burgers are somewhat larger than what we are used to - I think the US pound is equal to a UK Tonne. That or the 'Quarter pounder' is the weight of the bun not the burger itself*. Stick the upper part of the bun on a stick and you have a serviceable umbrella. (*Actually, I'm wondering if a McD's 'Quarter pounder' is measured by the weight of the meat or the overall weight of the burger when assembled) |
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Post by the light works on Nov 15, 2014 13:38:44 GMT
there is a world of difference between a big mac and a real hamburger. No... Just no. No there isnt. In usual butcher shop practises, What you have is ground beef. You dont waste the good cuts on ground beef. Ground beef for use in burgers are the bits of cow that are only useful if you are a cow.... If you are grinding up perfect Sirloin Steak to make burgers, you are guilty of crimes against food. I know, I can taste the irony already, and we aint even started cooking owt yet.... But Burgers are sausage meat spread out into a loose circle. Oh yes, I will agree, you start adding bread and oats to pad the mix out a bit, "sawdust" is rumoured as an additive as well, "Seasoning", well, "Secret spices" can be anything cant they?... But I agree, some burgers are better than others, and some are just cardboard with a bit of beef juice thrown over for colour and flavour.... But when all is finished, it is NOT a top class Sirloin or T-bone steak is it?... So if you start to get into the realms of selling Burger for the same or above the price of a decent steak, you are into the area of deceit, no burger is truly worth that amount. Nor should it try to be either. As soon as you try to make ground beef better than Steak, you are flogging the spot where a horse once died. Conclusion. Burgers have a roof of ability. The ideal burger will contain good meat, but that will be off cuts miss-shapes that are too damaged to be sold as stewing steak, and that is what they are there for, burgers are the way the butcher maximises the carcase by cutting down on waste. To try and pretend they are much more than that is con artistry at work. We should put cease and desist orders on con artists who try to sell you off cuts of meat for good cut prices. Its a con. Of course, there are cheep burgers. But by the time you get to those, either you have a financial restraint that prevents you buying the good stuff, or, well, we cant pull everyone out of the ditch that is fast food junkie, can we?.... well, THERE'S your problem. |
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Post by the light works on Nov 15, 2014 13:40:26 GMT
No... Just no. No there isnt. I have to agree with the Yanks on this. Big Mac's use frozen and processed burgers that are the meat equivalent of rice cakes - what flavor they may have comes from whatever they come into contact with. Which is why they smother the burger with various sauces. A real burger (in the US at least) is made and formed just before cooking and doesn't require a buckets worth of sauce to give it flavor. They also use quality meat, and don't involve having to spit chunks of gristle onto your plate. Of course being Americans their burgers are somewhat larger than what we are used to - I think the US pound is equal to a UK Tonne. That or the 'Quarter pounder' is the weight of the bun not the burger itself*. Stick the upper part of the bun on a stick and you have a serviceable umbrella. (*Actually, I'm wondering if a McD's 'Quarter pounder' is measured by the weight of the meat or the overall weight of the burger when assembled) it is officially the weight of the patty before cooking. when i make burgers I typically split a pound in half. |
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Post by ironhold on Nov 15, 2014 19:44:31 GMT
it is officially the weight of the patty before cooking. when i make burgers I typically split a pound in half. Here in the US, you'll see hamburger meat marked "__% lean" or "# / #". This indicates the percentage of actual meat in that sample versus fat. For example, "96% lean" means that 96% of the package is actual meat, while "70 / 30" means that you're paying for an inordinate amount of fat (30%). On one hand, the lower the percentage of actual meat, the lower the price of the meat itself. On the other hand, since fat cooks away you are left with smaller portions once everything is done. I've noted that some chains - like McNope's - seem to use the cheaper meat blend, resulting in some surprisingly small patties once they've cooked. In fact, I recall McNope's having to specifically disclaim "weight before cooking" in some of their advertising. |
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Post by the light works on Nov 15, 2014 19:50:47 GMT
it is officially the weight of the patty before cooking. when i make burgers I typically split a pound in half. Here in the US, you'll see hamburger meat marked "__% lean" or "# / #". This indicates the percentage of actual meat in that sample versus fat. For example, "96% lean" means that 96% of the package is actual meat, while "70 / 30" means that you're paying for an inordinate amount of fat (30%). On one hand, the lower the percentage of actual meat, the lower the price of the meat itself. On the other hand, since fat cooks away you are left with smaller portions once everything is done. I've noted that some chains - like McNope's - seem to use the cheaper meat blend, resulting in some surprisingly small patties once they've cooked. In fact, I recall McNope's having to specifically disclaim "weight before cooking" in some of their advertising. I suspect some water might be involved in some, too. - using (american) bacon as a standard for shrinkage. |
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Post by OziRiS on Nov 16, 2014 2:09:47 GMT
Well, if what Grant's been up to is anything to go by, McD's uses actual meat and doesn't pack it with all that weird stuff they've been accused of. Of course, we can't rule out that this a 100% publicity stunt where they've either gone to the best meat processing plant they have or have prettied it up for the cameras. Either way, I don't see Grant risking his reputation by giving his stamp of approval for anything that's not what it's claimed to be and the folks at McD's knows this, so I'm sure what HE'S seen is good. We just can't be sure he's actually seen the entire truth. I get a good laugh out of all the comments on YouTube, though. Claims that McD's puts everything from chicken beaks to human remains in their burgers and are intentionally trying to kill us all. Yeah, 'cause intentionally and systematically killing off all your customers is SUCH a good marketing strategy! It's not like they're in it to make money or anything... Idiots!  As for "the best burger", sorry SD, but I'll have to agree with the others here. No, you don't use prime meat for burgers, but freshly ground meat goes a long way as opposed to frozen meat. And you can actually use better meat than scraps. Just not steak meat. That would be a waste, I agree with you that far. |
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Post by the light works on Nov 16, 2014 3:08:38 GMT
Well, if what Grant's been up to is anything to go by, McD's uses actual meat and doesn't pack it with all that weird stuff they've been accused of. Of course, we can't rule out that this a 100% publicity stunt where they've either gone to the best meat processing plant they have or have prettied it up for the cameras. Either way, I don't see Grant risking his reputation by giving his stamp of approval for anything that's not what it's claimed to be and the folks at McD's knows this, so I'm sure what HE'S seen is good. We just can't be sure he's actually seen the entire truth. I get a good laugh out of all the comments on YouTube, though. Claims that McD's puts everything from chicken beaks to human remains in their burgers and are intentionally trying to kill us all. Yeah, 'cause intentionally and systematically killing off all your customers is SUCH a good marketing strategy! It's not like they're in it to make money or anything... Idiots! As for "the best burger", sorry SD, but I'll have to agree with the others here. No, you don't use prime meat for burgers, but freshly ground meat goes a long way as opposed to frozen meat. And you can actually use better meat than scraps. Just not steak meat. That would be a waste, I agree with you that far. however, I disagree with the contention that sirloin is better as steak. - and then, chuck and round are better as hamburger than as roast or steak. |
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Post by silverdragon on Nov 16, 2014 8:17:17 GMT
I am beginning to wonder if you all have eaten too many bad burgers....
Yesterday I was in a Witherspoons pub im Manchester, Lloyds, opposite the Imax cinema.
The burgers in there?... you would have to taste them to believe, but they are some of the best "fast food chain" type burgers I have eaten in a long while.
I did that on purpose, I was in Manchester, so I went to one of the places I know makes good burgers to get a good base on this discussion.
Was it better than Mc'Ds?.. thats like asking if a Jaguar XF is more comfortable than a VW polo.
But then again, anything phrench can be beaten by a VQ polo, and you have RR at the top of the scale.....
But they are all cars, they all get you from place to place.
A Burger is a Burger and not a rib-eye steak.
Unless you own an Alfa Romeo, where the place you get to is a heap of rust.... it may be the place you start as well, dependant on how much of a hurry you were in before you tried to start the damn thing?...
But what is a burger, can we define that.
Ideally, it is what it is, good meat pressed into a round shape and fried.
In that way, you cant have much difference between burgers....
Now personally, I have never eaten anything "worse" than a McD's burger, which definitely is quarter pound before cooking.
But.
If you ate a burger that was the same weight before and after cooking, it would taste horrible....
You need a certain amount of fat content inside the meat to cook it properly... we should all know that?
You either put that in before you cook, or you cook the thing in a puddle of fat, but either way, you need fat.
And McD's have worked that out and supply the exact amount of fat required, good beef dripping fat, inside the uncooked burger.
I have seen cardboard £1 for 4 bargain bucket burgers that I have never eaten.. I know what is in them...
THEY are the one that are a world away from a good burger, but we dont discuss them in this house, we all agree that they are not for eating, and are a waste of money?...
Maybe when you make the claim world of difference you are including those unmentionable objects that are the bits no one else wants.
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Post by GTCGreg on Nov 16, 2014 15:03:33 GMT
Now personally, I have never eaten anything "worse" than a McD's burger... What? No White Castles in GB? Not that everyone even considers them food. But I have to admit, I like a plate of them every now and then to keep me "regular." |
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Post by the light works on Nov 16, 2014 15:25:02 GMT
Now personally, I have never eaten anything "worse" than a McD's burger... What? No White Castles in GB? Not that everyone even considers them food. But I have to admit, I like a plate of them every now and then to keep me "regular." here, to clarify my position, there are 5 grades of hamburger. there are the high volume fast food burgers, such as McNopes and Burger King. then there are the better grade fast food burgers, such as Burgerville USA and Carl's Jr/Hardees. then there are the specialty burger places, like Red Robin, and the sit-down restaurant hamburgers. then there is what you get when you take a half pound of better grade beef, run it through a coarse grinder, cook it on your stove or grill, and assemble it yourself. since you like comparing them to cars, that equates to your (US made) Ford Escort, (UK made) Ford Escort, Ford Mustang, and Ford GT-40 |
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Post by silverdragon on Nov 17, 2014 7:54:06 GMT
Now personally, I have never eaten anything "worse" than a McD's burger... What? No White Castles in GB? Not that everyone even considers them food. But I have to admit, I like a plate of them every now and then to keep me "regular." There are plenty of grease sandwich joints, I just dont frequent them..... If I see Bacon cooking and I can identify it, I will eat that, if I cant identify it, I pass on by. To gauge the worthyness of a greasy spoon roadside cafe, count the trucks... if its hard to find space to park in a big parking area because of the number of trucks, they are there for good reason?.... Most of them are there for Bacon sandwich. UK Trucking moves on Bacon Sandwiches, strong tea and various curses. |
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Post by the light works on Nov 17, 2014 15:25:38 GMT
What? No White Castles in GB? Not that everyone even considers them food. But I have to admit, I like a plate of them every now and then to keep me "regular." There are plenty of grease sandwich joints, I just dont frequent them..... If I see Bacon cooking and I can identify it, I will eat that, if I cant identify it, I pass on by. To gauge the worthyness of a greasy spoon roadside cafe, count the trucks... if its hard to find space to park in a big parking area because of the number of trucks, they are there for good reason?.... Most of them are there for Bacon sandwich. UK Trucking moves on Bacon Sandwiches, strong tea and various curses. unless they are all Crisco trucks and backed up to the kitchen door.  |
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Post by silverdragon on Nov 18, 2014 9:19:16 GMT
I have no idea what crisco is.... "Vegetable shortening", if that is margarine substitute, margaric acid stuff, or whatever, its come in for a lot of criticism.
Its not welcome in many places because of the "what fat is in there" question....
Trans fat, unsuitable fat, etc.
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Post by Antigone68104 on Nov 18, 2014 12:25:09 GMT
Basically, vegetable shortening (Crisco is a brand name) is a substitute for lard.
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Post by silverdragon on Nov 18, 2014 13:41:19 GMT
It....
Cant....
Be....
Lard......
no no no nononononononononononononononononononononononono(ad infinitum)
Lard is animal fat.
End of conversation?.....
It bloody well should be the end of the conversation.
If you fry something in Lard, you choose animal fat.
If you fry something in vegetable oil, its vegetable oil, and as hard as you try, its Still vegetable.....
So why try and disguise it?...
If its fat, its fat.....
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