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Post by silverdragon on Feb 15, 2018 7:37:11 GMT
I suppose I ought to say a few words on the subject?.
To those affected by this tragedy, no words can console you, I dont know where to start, our thoughts and prayers are with you as a family and a group of friends here on this forum, I know I speak for all on that, because of what has been said before on the subject.
On this happening "Again".
How many times does it have to happen before those who will inexcusably whine on about their "rights" under the second amendment to bear arms, how many times before we get to say shut the [duck] up, and how many times do I have to say this is allowing the whack-a-doodles to go arm themselves.
America needs some form of Gun control.
Its too darn late now to halt the proliferation of existing arms on the streets, there will always be those who will bear arms, but there needs to be a movement to halt those who are unstable from a legal right to bear arms.
This kid?. Excluded from school for "Unspecified" reasons.... enough to have him thrown out of a school, but obviously not enough to question should he be allowed an assault rifle.
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Post by the light works on Feb 15, 2018 16:54:46 GMT
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Post by GTCGreg on Feb 15, 2018 17:34:18 GMT
Gun was purchased legally even though he was known to have mental health issues. Was allowed on school grounds even though he had made previous violent threats against other students. Posted on Youtube that he wanted to be a professional school shooter and the FBI was notified and talked to the person that reported it and went no further. Red flag after red flag after red flag. Heard an interesting comment from some government idiot just a few minutes ago that said that the police need to train students how to identify and report suspicious students. In this case, the students already knew and had actually joked before hand about if anyone was going to shoot up their school, it would be him. Maybe it's the police and school officials that need to be trained on how to spot dangerous students. |
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Post by the light works on Feb 15, 2018 17:56:02 GMT
Gun was purchased legally even though he was known to have mental health issues. Was allowed on school grounds even though he had made previous violent threats against other students. Posted on Youtube that he wanted to be a professional school shooter and the FBI was notified and talked to the person that reported it and went no further. Red flag after red flag after red flag. Heard an interesting comment from some government idiot just a few minutes ago that said that the police need to train students how to identify and report suspicious students. In this case, the students already knew and had actually joked before hand about if anyone was going to shoot up their school, it would be him. Maybe it's the police and school officials that need to be trained on how to spot dangerous students. the press release on the news program Mrs TLW watches specifically said that they couldn't do much more than observe, because he hadn't broken any laws, yet. "if you see something, say something, but we can't do anything about it." |
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Post by ironhold on Feb 15, 2018 17:58:36 GMT
Maybe it's the police and school officials that need to be trained on how to spot dangerous students. Bingo. The kids knew, but the adults dropped the ball. If reports had been made, why wasn't a flag put on his NICS profile? Why was he still allowed to come to school? You can have all the laws in the world, but if nothing's enforced, things will still go wrong. |
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Post by the light works on Feb 15, 2018 18:15:52 GMT
Bingo. The kids knew, but the adults dropped the ball. If reports had been made, why wasn't a flag put on his NICS profile? Why was he still allowed to come to school? You can have all the laws in the world, but if nothing's enforced, things will still go wrong. my understanding is he was suspended from school, and there was a separate ban prohibiting him from bringing a bag or backpack onto campus. the conclusion I draw from this is that he managed to sneak onto the school campus, since I would presume there was also a general prohibition against bringing firearms onto campus. |
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Post by GTCGreg on Feb 15, 2018 18:20:46 GMT
my understanding is he was suspended from school, and there was a separate ban prohibiting him from bringing a bag or backpack onto campus. the conclusion I draw from this is that he managed to sneak onto the school campus, since I would presume there was also a general prohibition against bringing firearms onto campus. If only his AR-15 would have fit into a backpack, we could have stopped him. |
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Post by the light works on Feb 15, 2018 18:50:34 GMT
If only his AR-15 would have fit into a backpack, we could have stopped him. if only he'd had a marijuana cigarette in his possession. |
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Post by the light works on Feb 15, 2018 19:34:50 GMT
it appears he stormed the school, pulled the fire alarm, and tossed smoke grenades to create confusion. then tried to blend in with students fleeing the school, but was recognized from surveillance video and captured.
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Post by ironhold on Feb 18, 2018 4:02:46 GMT
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Post by ironhold on Feb 20, 2018 23:33:11 GMT
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Post by the light works on Feb 20, 2018 23:39:49 GMT
I recall there was some talk about burial with honors, as well. |
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Post by the light works on Feb 22, 2018 2:55:46 GMT
and they intercepted another school shooter in California, before he could carry out his plans.
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Post by silverdragon on Feb 22, 2018 8:31:06 GMT
www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-43149694Where to start?. So the kid with a gun now knows "Take out the teachers first 'cos they may shoot back"?.. Your just painting a primary target on all school teachers. Armed police officers have to go through EXTENSIVE training and counselling before they are ready to carry a weapon.... What of the teachers, the majority of teachers, who would refuse to carry a gun, or show they could not be relied upon to fire that gun when they have a suspect in the sights?. Bloody GOOD teachers who care for Kids, now assigned to scrap heap, because they cannot see them as "targets"?.. and how many teachers would see that as crass just for even mentioning that the kids could be suspect targets?. On good piece of news, nope HAS resigned to calling for better background checks. Its a start... its a bloody slow start, but it is a start.
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Post by the light works on Feb 22, 2018 15:54:16 GMT
www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-43149694Where to start?. So the kid with a gun now knows "Take out the teachers first 'cos they may shoot back"?.. Your just painting a primary target on all school teachers. Armed police officers have to go through EXTENSIVE training and counselling before they are ready to carry a weapon.... What of the teachers, the majority of teachers, who would refuse to carry a gun, or show they could not be relied upon to fire that gun when they have a suspect in the sights?. Bloody GOOD teachers who care for Kids, now assigned to scrap heap, because they cannot see them as "targets"?.. and how many teachers would see that as crass just for even mentioning that the kids could be suspect targets?. On good piece of news, nope HAS resigned to calling for better background checks. Its a start... its a bloody slow start, but it is a start. exactly: arm one teacher, and you make all teachers targets. |
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Post by GTCGreg on Feb 22, 2018 16:33:39 GMT
www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-43149694Where to start?. So the kid with a gun now knows "Take out the teachers first 'cos they may shoot back"?.. Your just painting a primary target on all school teachers. Armed police officers have to go through EXTENSIVE training and counselling before they are ready to carry a weapon.... What of the teachers, the majority of teachers, who would refuse to carry a gun, or show they could not be relied upon to fire that gun when they have a suspect in the sights?. Bloody GOOD teachers who care for Kids, now assigned to scrap heap, because they cannot see them as "targets"?.. and how many teachers would see that as crass just for even mentioning that the kids could be suspect targets?. On good piece of news, nope HAS resigned to calling for better background checks. Its a start... its a bloody slow start, but it is a start. My opinion is that arming teachers will create more problems than it solves. In many cases, the students seem to be more mentally stable than some of the teachers. If we decide that schools need to be protected by armed guards, then we put in armed guards. We don't try to make teachers do double duty as armed guards. As for background checks, I wish someone could tell me why they put disabled vets that need help doing their taxes on the mentally challenged list preventing them from owning a gun, yet a known 18 year old mental wacko is allowed to legally purchase an assault rifle. Do we need better gun control? You bet we do. The thing that really bothers me isn't that every time something like this happens, the first, and unfortunitly the last thing people talk about is gun control. That's fine, we need to have that debate. But what really concerns me is that's where the debate ends. We never discuss the real reasons that someone would go out and kill as many people as they can. They may obtain a gun to carry out their plan, but just owning a gun doesn't make them want to do it. Could a constant diet of violent video games that glorify mass killing be having an effect? How about the violent movies coming out of Hollywood that seem to always show that the guy with the biggest gun wins. Maybe it's parents that have no idea what their kids are up to and don't want to know. Maybe it's laws that protect mentally unstable individuals but do nothing to protect the victims of those unstable individuals. I don't have the answers any more than anyone else, but I do know that the problem is well beyond just gun control. |
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Post by ironhold on Feb 22, 2018 17:03:12 GMT
As for background checks, I wish someone could tell me why they put disabled vets that need help doing their taxes on the mentally challenged list preventing them from owning a gun, yet a known 18 year old mental wacko is allowed to legally purchase an assault rifle. Do we need better gun control? You bet we do. Disabled vets - Talk to Obama. This happened under his watch, and represents part of a litany of offenses against military veterans he either proposed or enacted. (Remember when he wanted to force military service members to purchase insurance on the open market so that the government didn't have to pay for their care?) The shooter - It would appear that nobody, from the school to the FBI, took any of this seriously enough to get the ball rolling on a mental competency hearing or anything else that would have gotten him into the NICS database. Political correctness. It's only politically correct to talk about the shooters if they're white and male. Try to bring up non-white or female shooters? You're deflecting by bringing up aberrations. Try to bring up mental illness even though the vast majority of shooters had known mental health issues or histories of violence? You're scum. No, the only politically correct thing to talk about is how evil and stupid Americans supposedly are for owning guns in the first place. Back on the old forums someone posted a study which indicated a negative correlation between video games and violence, with the study finding evidence that people with anger issues are using video games as a proxy or outlet through which to vent their frustrations at the world. So in and of themselves, games can't be singled out. Rather, a lot of people who actually do care about this stuff have been questioning whether or not the intense media coverage over incidents like this is in fact encouraging copycats and others. I actually saw a rather coherently-assembled video in which someone was exploring the concept that the media coverage of shootings is breeding more shooters; I'll post it if I can find it. Sadly, that's what happened in Columbine. The kids were unstable and being given an off-label prescription despite the doctors knowing that the medicine was not approved for use in minors due to potential psychotic episodes. Much of the advanced prep work the kids did for the shooting was done at their homes, including the manufacture of the pipe bombs, but the parents did nothing about this just like they did nothing about the medication. More galling is the fact that the father of one of the kids was in the Air Force, so you'd think he'd know what a bomb looks like. If you have an hour to kill, YouTube host Aydin Paladin - who IIRC is either a humanities grad student or has a post-grad degree - posted a video yesterday talking about how easy it is for people to manipulate the emotions around such events to get their way. As with all of her videos, she cites a rather extensive list of sources, mostly academic papers. edit - she does sometimes swear when she's exasperated over something, and some of the fan art she occasionally posts in the end credits is a bit on the blue side, so consider her material not work-safe. But yeah - brains, a no-nonsense approach to life, and a marked sense of humor. There's a reason why she's popular on the internet. |
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Post by the light works on Feb 22, 2018 17:07:38 GMT
www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-43149694Where to start?. So the kid with a gun now knows "Take out the teachers first 'cos they may shoot back"?.. Your just painting a primary target on all school teachers. Armed police officers have to go through EXTENSIVE training and counselling before they are ready to carry a weapon.... What of the teachers, the majority of teachers, who would refuse to carry a gun, or show they could not be relied upon to fire that gun when they have a suspect in the sights?. Bloody GOOD teachers who care for Kids, now assigned to scrap heap, because they cannot see them as "targets"?.. and how many teachers would see that as crass just for even mentioning that the kids could be suspect targets?. On good piece of news, nope HAS resigned to calling for better background checks. Its a start... its a bloody slow start, but it is a start. My opinion is that arming teachers will create more problems than it solves. In many cases, the students seem to be more mentally stable than some of the teachers. If we decide that schools need to be protected by armed guards, then we put in armed guards. We don't try to make teachers do double duty as armed guards. As for background checks, I wish someone could tell me why they put disabled vets that need help doing their taxes on the mentally challenged list preventing them from owning a gun, yet a known 18 year old mental wacko is allowed to legally purchase an assault rifle. Do we need better gun control? You bet we do. The thing that really bothers me isn't that every time something like this happens, the first, and unfortunitly the last thing people talk about is gun control. That's fine, we need to have that debate. But what really concerns me is that's where the debate ends. We never discuss the real reasons that someone would go out and kill as many people as they can. They may obtain a gun to carry out their plan, but just owning a gun doesn't make them want to do it. Could a constant diet of violent video games that glorify mass killing be having an effect? How about the violent movies coming out of Hollywood that seem to always show that the guy with the biggest gun wins. Maybe it's parents that have no idea what their kids are up to and don't want to know. Maybe it's laws that protect mentally unstable individuals but do nothing to protect the victims of those unstable individuals. I don't have the answers any more than anyone else, but I do know that the problem is well beyond just gun control. or maybe it is a society that conflates being a winner with hurting other people. the thing that really bothers me is that it's always too soon to talk about gun control. |
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Post by the light works on Feb 22, 2018 17:13:58 GMT
As for background checks, I wish someone could tell me why they put disabled vets that need help doing their taxes on the mentally challenged list preventing them from owning a gun, yet a known 18 year old mental wacko is allowed to legally purchase an assault rifle. Do we need better gun control? You bet we do. Disabled vets - Talk to Obama. This happened under his watch, and represents part of a litany of offenses against military veterans he either proposed or enacted. (Remember when he wanted to force military service members to purchase insurance on the open market so that the government didn't have to pay for their care?) The shooter - It would appear that nobody, from the school to the FBI, took any of this seriously enough to get the ball rolling on a mental competency hearing or anything else that would have gotten him into the NICS database. Political correctness. It's only politically correct to talk about the shooters if they're white and male. Try to bring up non-white or female shooters? You're deflecting by bringing up aberrations. Try to bring up mental illness even though the vast majority of shooters had known mental health issues or histories of violence? You're scum. No, the only politically correct thing to talk about is how evil and stupid Americans supposedly are for owning guns in the first place. Back on the old forums someone posted a study which indicated a negative correlation between video games and violence, with the study finding evidence that people with anger issues are using video games as a proxy or outlet through which to vent their frustrations at the world. So in and of themselves, games can't be singled out. Rather, a lot of people who actually do care about this stuff have been questioning whether or not the intense media coverage over incidents like this is in fact encouraging copycats and others. I actually saw a rather coherently-assembled video in which someone was exploring the concept that the media coverage of shootings is breeding more shooters; I'll post it if I can find it. Sadly, that's what happened in Columbine. The kids were unstable and being given an off-label prescription despite the doctors knowing that the medicine was not approved for use in minors due to potential psychotic episodes. Much of the advanced prep work the kids did for the shooting was done at their homes, including the manufacture of the pipe bombs, but the parents did nothing about this just like they did nothing about the medication. More galling is the fact that the father of one of the kids was in the Air Force, so you'd think he'd know what a bomb looks like. If you have an hour to kill, YouTube host Aydin Paladin - who IIRC is either a humanities grad student or has a post-grad degree - posted a video yesterday talking about how easy it is for people to manipulate the emotions around such events to get their way. As with all of her videos, she cites a rather extensive list of sources, mostly academic papers. edit - she does sometimes swear when she's exasperated over something, and some of the fan art she occasionally posts in the end credits is a bit on the blue side, so consider her material not work-safe. But yeah - brains, a no-nonsense approach to life, and a marked sense of humor. There's a reason why she's popular on the internet. I didnt remember when he wanted to force veterans to buy their own insurance, so I looked it up. turns out it was a satire piece, kind of like when Sarah Palin brought a flute for the talent portion of the vice presidential debate. www.snopes.com/politics/obama/veteranshealth.asp |
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Post by GTCGreg on Feb 22, 2018 17:20:14 GMT
the thing that really bothers me is that it's always too soon to talk about gun control. But the fact remains, gun control is still always the first, and only thing we seem to talk about. How about we talk about how true gun control starts with the person holding the gun, not with the gun itself? There are over 5 million NRA members. Over 98% of them have never fired a gun at another person. And of those that have, most are also police officers. How's that for gun control. |
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