|
|
Post by GTCGreg on May 23, 2018 16:21:09 GMT
You need to update your glasses. There is no mention of gun control in that statement. What I said, in case you can't read it clearly, is that we shouldn't just put the blame on guns. That's just too easy and doesn't solve the problem with people thinking they can solve their problems through violence. But I agree that keeping guns out of the hands of people that would use them to do harm is a good idea. and where did I say gun control would solve everything? you claim to agree that keeping guns out of the bad guys' hands is a good idea, but you have been categorically rejecting any suggestion that is aimed in that direction. if I have misstated my position, let me make it perfectly clear now. I am 100% in favor of keeping guns out of the hands of anyone that shouldn't have one. We may still disagree on exactly how to do that, but it seems our objective is the same. |
|
|
|
Post by the light works on May 23, 2018 17:54:07 GMT
the article I read does not appear to say the police are protecting them because they are a racial minority. the article implies they are lazy and incompetent, and neither party seems able to effectively communicate with the other. |
|
|
|
Post by the light works on May 23, 2018 17:59:45 GMT
and where did I say gun control would solve everything? you claim to agree that keeping guns out of the bad guys' hands is a good idea, but you have been categorically rejecting any suggestion that is aimed in that direction. if I have misstated my position, let me make it perfectly clear now. I am 100% in favor of keeping guns out of the hands of anyone that shouldn't have one. We may still disagree on exactly how to do that, but it seems our objective is the same. now. my suggestion is a national operator's license program. for a start. along with expanded mental health care. go ahead and look up what the NRA party line is on a national operator's license program. |
|
|
|
Post by GTCGreg on May 23, 2018 19:49:55 GMT
if I have misstated my position, let me make it perfectly clear now. I am 100% in favor of keeping guns out of the hands of anyone that shouldn't have one. We may still disagree on exactly how to do that, but it seems our objective is the same. now. my suggestion is a national operator's license program. for a start. along with expanded mental health care. go ahead and look up what the NRA party line is on a national operator's license program. Getting a vehicle operators license is probably one of the most difficult things the average American does, yet there are still over 10,000 DWI deaths a year. I am not opposed to stronger gun control including some type of proof that a person is qualified and trained in the proper use of a gun. I believe most states already have that in the form of the FOID card which, by the way, the NRA is not opposed to. Still, requiring someone to have a FOID doesn't prevent them from using a gun in an illegal way any more than posting a "Gun Free Zone" sign prevents someone from taking a gun there. All these are not "bad" things, but if there is no way or desire of enforcing them, we are just spinning our wheels. Let's start by enforcing the laws we already have and then, if we decide we need more, great, let's go for it. But just piling on more laws that are unenforceable is a waste of our time. All it does is gives our politicians a way of saying, "There, I fixed that." |
|
|
|
Post by the light works on May 23, 2018 20:23:11 GMT
now. my suggestion is a national operator's license program. for a start. along with expanded mental health care. go ahead and look up what the NRA party line is on a national operator's license program. Getting a vehicle operators license is probably one of the most difficult things the average American does, yet there are still over 10,000 DWI deaths a year. I am not opposed to stronger gun control including some type of proof that a person is qualified and trained in the proper use of a gun. I believe most states already have that in the form of the FOID card which, by the way, the NRA is not opposed to. Still, requiring someone to have a FOID doesn't prevent them from using a gun in an illegal way any more than posting a "Gun Free Zone" sign prevents someone from taking a gun there. All these are not "bad" things, but if there is no way or desire of enforcing them, we are just spinning our wheels. Let's start by enforcing the laws we already have and then, if we decide we need more, great, let's go for it. But just piling on more laws that are unenforceable is a waste of our time. All it does is gives our politicians a way of saying, "There, I fixed that." however, not having a FOID card can be taken as evidence they either do not have proper safety training or there is anoher reason it has been decided they are not to be trusted with a gun, just as having a gun inside a gun free zone is an indication that you are inclined to not follow the rules. and hence, by definition, a bad guy with a gun. |
|
|
|
Post by ironhold on May 23, 2018 22:50:41 GMT
the article I read does not appear to say the police are protecting them because they are a racial minority. the article implies they are lazy and incompetent, and neither party seems able to effectively communicate with the other. There's six total articles about Rotherham, five news / opinion pieces and a Wikipedia article. Basically, the police officials in the city were so terrified of being branded for daring to arrest Pakistani suspects that they allowed the whole lot to run riot. |
|
|
|
Post by GTCGreg on May 24, 2018 3:16:56 GMT
Interesting report from the New York Times. In spite of all the school shootings, schools are still the safest places for kids to be. While no school shooting is justifiable, it does give a little perspective on the subject. www.nytimes.com/2018/05/22/us/safe-school-shootings.html |
|
|
|
Post by silverdragon on May 24, 2018 8:30:34 GMT
Here in the US, we're looking at the fact that acid attacks are now a thing in the UK and we're mortified. We're taking it to mean that the politicians have their heads in the sand, that they're refusing to admit that they need to get at what's causing people to want to do violence to others. Possessing a butter knife in public? Crude jokes online? Thought crime? Cops seem to be all over that, but if you're part of a "protected" class you can literally form a rape gang and no one will do anything. That is how a lot of folks in the US see the British legal system right now. Hence why so many of us would rather take our chances against someone with a Saturday night special than try for something more resembling the UK. Acid attacks are a "Thing" in the UK?. What talking head is blethering that piece of crap at you as phake news?. In the news, One case, ONE case, where the woman involved has just been given a hefty sentence, more or less a "life", does that make it a "thing"?. Yes there has been a couple of other cases, in recent years. Trust me on this, this is NOT a "thing", people that do it are seen as worse than scum, this is malicious disfigurement, and those attackers are considered many times worse than drunk drives as social pariahs, almost down to the level of paedophiles, its not common, its NOT a thing, its almost terrorism, do not think of it as anything like "Popular choice" as that is a lie, and if anyone is telling you it is, they are talking out the south end of a northbound horse, to coin a reasonably good quite for that kind of thing. Cops all over "Thought crime?>" Gis a break man, where are you getting this twaddle?. We have barely enough cops to go deal with drunk and disorderly, let alone break ins, theft, vehicle crime, so thought crime is a madeupium phake news story. We ARE calling for better policing of the interwebs. This be true. We are calling of world wide action on this, we are not, however, suddenly massively increasing the number of police officers working as moderators.... The idea that there are "Protected" classes, that is abhorrent, your suggesting that those that are can form a rape gang and get away with it, is also abhorrent, those who "Thought they could" are abhorrent, and they are being dealt with, if they even exist, I would like to know what case you are referencing there. Then they have been watching too much Fox News, or other MucDuck owned media company phake news red-tops. What is a saturday night special?. If it is that colloquial cheap piece of metal that is almost a hand-gun, I would rather you didnt. At least with a close range hand weapon you can GTF outa there, with a ranged weapon?.. And then if you carry, someone else will, and then everyone is, and then people die because someone "looks the wrong way" and people react wrongly to that. EDIT... I have now seen you long list of cherry picked articles from "recent history".
Most of that is media hype to sell headlines... not much truth, and that that is is stretched to the max...
Would you now accept that because I do NOT have space to do so, I will refrain from posting all the strange articles of people with strange weapons and how that has affected America from the same time period.
Nor will I post articles of mass shootings, strange cults, slavery, weird people, strange laws, etc....
And I mean that quite literally, I do NOT have space on this forum to go ahead and cite all the articles that echo your list, from your own country. |
|
|
|
Post by silverdragon on May 24, 2018 15:20:40 GMT
Additional, from a quick check, the "Butter knife" story is from 2005.
2005... how many school shootings have YOU had in USA since 2005?...
And you wish to hold up for evidence a butter knife from 2005 to back up your story that the UK is on the verge of anarchy?.
Lets be brutal.
In the last 5 yrs, you have had better chance of survival in the front line service of the Navy than you have had surviving the last 5 yrs of school.
Number of school shootings that were student on student in UK that have resulted in Death in the same period?.
Bet I could count them without taking my socks off... ?.
I hope Mr F will pop in here and correct me where needed.
|
|
|
|
Post by GTCGreg on May 24, 2018 15:27:41 GMT
I enjoy the debate, but PEASE STOP SHOUTING.
|
|
|
|
Post by silverdragon on May 25, 2018 10:00:08 GMT
I enjoy the debate, but PEASE STOP SHOUTING.Sorry Greg, were you sleeping then?.. |
|
|
|
Post by the light works on May 25, 2018 14:27:40 GMT
in a first, it appears that a good guy with a gun may have stopped a shooter BEFORE he was done shooting, anyway. I expect it to be all over the interwebz by the time I get on shift, tonight. haven't heard how many people the shooter shot before the good guy shot him.
|
|
|
|
Post by ponytail61 on May 25, 2018 23:14:34 GMT
|
|
|
|
Post by the light works on May 26, 2018 0:57:12 GMT
there have been plenty of incidents where an unarmed hero stopped a shooter when he paused to reload. but until now, every time an armed hero has "stopped" a shooter, the shooter has been trying to leave the area. |
|
|
|
Post by GTCGreg on May 26, 2018 14:24:18 GMT
...until now, every time an armed hero has "stopped" a shooter, the shooter has been trying to leave the area. Maybe time for a new policy. No shooter is allowed to leave the scene alive..EVER. Cuts down on trial and incarceration costs and my act as a further deterrent. |
|
|
|
Post by the light works on May 26, 2018 14:53:59 GMT
...until now, every time an armed hero has "stopped" a shooter, the shooter has been trying to leave the area. Maybe time for a new policy. No shooter is allowed to leave the scene alive..EVER. Cuts down on trial and incarceration costs and my act as a further deterrent. yep, just try, convict, and execute them on site. |
|
|
|
Post by GTCGreg on May 26, 2018 15:21:16 GMT
Maybe time for a new policy. No shooter is allowed to leave the scene alive..EVER. Cuts down on trial and incarceration costs and my act as a further deterrent. yep, just try, convict, and execute them on site. Press; "Why did you have to shoot him 67 times"? Police; "We ran out of ammunition." |
|
|
|
Post by silverdragon on May 27, 2018 11:24:45 GMT
Hmmm... is that getting a bit judge dredd in response?.
However, I agree, active shooter with confirmed KSI casualties, shouldnt leave the scene alive.
"Oh but we need to find out why they did it"?.
Seriously?.
If you dont know by now you probably never will, and then, do we really need to know?. Will they ever admit the truth?.
Do we even care?.
I dont have the answers, and I aint sure I want to know either.
|
|
|
|
Post by mrfatso on May 27, 2018 11:51:59 GMT
Additional, from a quick check, the "Butter knife" story is from 2005. 2005... how many school shootings have YOU had in USA since 2005?...And you wish to hold up for evidence a butter knife from 2005 to back up your story that the UK is on the verge of anarchy?. Lets be brutal. In the last 5 yrs, you have had better chance of survival in the front line service of the Navy than you have had surviving the last 5 yrs of school. Number of school shootings that were student on student in UK that have resulted in Death in the same period?. Bet I could count them without taking my socks off... ?. I hope Mr F will pop in here and correct me where needed. I won't correct you because it's broadly correct. There have been stories picked up by nope about the stabbing attacks in London stating A&E were like warsones according to some Hospital Consutlants, but they have never worked in a US hospital. It's all comparative there are other people who have worked in both the UK and the US that say as bad as A&E is sometimes here it's nothing like the state of hospitals in some parts of LA or Chicago for example. In 2017 there were 465 acid attacks in the whole of the country with no fatalities there was the one man who went to Switzerland to end his own life, in the US there were over 15,000 gun Deaths (not including suicides) and who knows how many injuries. Yes there has been an increase in attacks but America is still far more dangerous than Britain. Even if we add Knives there were around 240 deaths last years due to stabbings, I know our country has a smaller population than the US but on a per capita basis it is still a relatively small amount. |
|
|
|
Post by the light works on May 27, 2018 14:13:45 GMT
Additional, from a quick check, the "Butter knife" story is from 2005. 2005... how many school shootings have YOU had in USA since 2005?...And you wish to hold up for evidence a butter knife from 2005 to back up your story that the UK is on the verge of anarchy?. Lets be brutal. In the last 5 yrs, you have had better chance of survival in the front line service of the Navy than you have had surviving the last 5 yrs of school. Number of school shootings that were student on student in UK that have resulted in Death in the same period?. Bet I could count them without taking my socks off... ?. I hope Mr F will pop in here and correct me where needed. I won't correct you because it's broadly correct. There have been stories picked up by nope about the stabbing attacks in London stating A&E were like warsones according to some Hospital Consutlants, but they have never worked in a US hospital. It's all comparative there are other people who have worked in both the UK and the US that say as bad as A&E is sometimes here it's nothing like the state of hospitals in some parts of LA or Chicago for example. In 2017 there were 465 acid attacks in the whole of the country with no fatalities there was the one man who went to Switzerland to end his own life, in the US there were over 15,000 gun Deaths (not including suicides) and who knows how many injuries. Yes there has been an increase in attacks but America is still far more dangerous than Britain. Even if we add Knives there were around 240 deaths last years due to stabbings, I know our country has a smaller population than the US but on a per capita basis it is still a relatively small amount. considering we can overload our hospital ER with ONE major car crash, saying "A&E was like a war zone" may not be an objective measurement. |
|
