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Post by wvengineer on Feb 13, 2016 19:56:39 GMT
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Post by GTCGreg on Feb 13, 2016 20:40:42 GMT
I have converted just about all the lighting in my place to LED with the exception of the tubular florescents in my shop and office areas. While I've found some really nice LED replacements for incandescent and CFLs, I haven't really seen anything I like for the standard tube florescents. Part of the problem is that most of the LED replacements are for the T-8 diameter tubes while all of mine are the older T-12 size. There are two types of LED replacements. One is a direct drop-in replacement requiring no rewiring, and the other requires the removal of the ballast and applying the 120 volts directly across the LED tube. Most of the LED replacements I've seen don't seem to put out as much light as the standard cool-white 48", 40 Watt T-12 tubes. That said, the LED's are getting better (and cheaper) every day. But still, I haven't seen anything that would make me switch quite yet. T
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Post by Lokifan on Feb 13, 2016 21:39:58 GMT
I recently came across these: 3700 Lumen 4000K Dual 4ft LED Utility LightCostco had them for $25 each. Amazon has them for $50. I bought one to put over my workbench. The thing weighs almost nothing. I actually just screwed the reflector to my overhead beams then clipped the light to it, and it's solid as a rock. I liked it so much I put another one up over the washer/dryer. They throw off a lot of light. To my eye, they put out at least as much if not more light than the twin 8ft T12 60W florescents, and at 38W, come in at about 1/3 the power use. They don't flicker, they're instant on, and so far I have no complaints. They look like T8 tubes, but they're plastic. The only drawback is that they are sold as a light fixture, so the tubes are not replaceable. However, they are rated for 50,000 hours of life. That's about six years of 24/7 life. Since I don't use them more than a few hours a day at most, I expect them to last much longer. I'm sure in the future something will come along to improve on it, but at $25 per fixture, it's going to be hard to beat.
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Post by the light works on Feb 13, 2016 22:42:33 GMT
you have two options: you can go with 120V tubes, where you remove the ballast and connect the monuments directly to the 120V; or you can use an instant start electronic ballast (for 32W T-8 tubes) and get tubes made to run on an instant start ballast. I haven't used the 120V tubes, but the direct replacement tubes work like gangbusters if you have electronic instant start ballasts in there currently, then you will probably want to go with the 120V tubes, since you are getting the RF interference from the ballasts if they aren't that new, then I would consider a new ballast and the direct refit tubes; as the tubes are about 12% cheaper. the other benefit is that new electronic ballasts are available in smart universal voltage models; which means if you have an unusual power event, your LED tubes will still be getting the correct voltage. and for Gary - you can do the same thing - T-8 tubes have the same pin spacing as T-12 tubes. one of my common fluorescent repairs is to drop out the dead T-12 ballast and fit a new T-8 ballast and new tubes.
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Post by silverdragon on Feb 14, 2016 11:52:15 GMT
"Start again". I have had fluorescent tubes as part of the over-counter illumination. I scrapped them... I now have the necessary holes drilled above the top cabinets overhang to hold GU10 bulbs, the fixing for those are almost stupidly cheep, say a set of 10 for £20 including halogen bulbs... Scrap the halogen Bulbs. You only need the fittings. As long as you work out how much Lumen equivalent you get from Halogen to LED, get the LED. Your talking a lot more expensive than halogen, of course, but from changing two bulbs a month in my kitchen that blow from wear, I havnt [touch wood] changed one bulb for well over 2 yrs so far on the LED replacements.... They fit as a direct swap for the Halogen, and consume less than a third of the power anyway..... (Mine are quite bright, I illuminate the whole kitchen with a dozen bulbs, its a sizeable kitchen..) They also do not get warm, so no heat damage... In that you can change them after they have been on without having to even wait for them to cool down. You can get LED in Bayonet, Large Screw, Small Screw, GU10 pins, in fact as many different fittings as other bulbs these days. My whole house is now LED lighting, I just put new LED in when the old bulbs blew as we went along, its a lot cheaper on the power, but, importantly, I spend less time changing bulbs. The only bind is I have to keep a piece of the box from one bulb in my wallet to remind me what Lumen a 60watt bulb incandescent used to emit, as I never can remember that lumen value. ( I think its around the 300 mark?..) As for conversion kits.... Unless they are half the price of the replacements, forget it, get down to the wire and put in a proper replacement, at least you have the chance to check for wiring faults as you go along.
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Post by wvengineer on Feb 14, 2016 13:43:17 GMT
My concern about going with ones that use the old ballast is I tend to have had luck with ballasts. I am on my third one (T8) and it is going as well. It's putting off a descent amount of RF interference. I can't use my 2 meter wave length radios while it is on. So for $20 to replace a ballast again or $59 to be rid of it...
My lamp post in my front yard died when this cold snap hit. I replaced it with a 60W equivalent daylight LED bulb. I swear that bulb puts out more light than a 100W traditional or CFL bulb.
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Post by GTCGreg on Feb 14, 2016 14:27:30 GMT
My concern about going with ones that use the old ballast is I tend to have had luck with ballasts. I am on my third one (T8) and it is going as well. It's putting off a descent amount of RF interference. I can't use my 2 meter wave length radios while it is on. So for $20 to replace a ballast again or $59 to be rid of it... My lamp post in my front yard died when this cold snap hit. I replaced it with a 60W equivalent daylight LED bulb. I swear that bulb puts out more light than a 100W traditional or CFL bulb. I'd sure get rid of that noisey ballast. Keep in mind, that if you go with the ballastless LED replacements for T8 tubes, you may also have to replace the lamp holder on the end where the power is applied to the tube. Some T8 lamp holders have shortening contacts when the tubes are removed. Not good when applying 120 V directly. They warn that some LED lightbulbs can also produce RFI. As I said, I've converted most of my lighting to LED with the exception of the fluorescent tubes. I have not noticed any RFI. In fact, the LED lamps seem to produce far less noise than the older CFL's they replaced. I never noticed the noise up on 2 m, but definitely on 40. Maybe because I always operated FM on 2 meters and not SSB.
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Post by the light works on Feb 14, 2016 15:02:11 GMT
My concern about going with ones that use the old ballast is I tend to have had luck with ballasts. I am on my third one (T8) and it is going as well. It's putting off a descent amount of RF interference. I can't use my 2 meter wave length radios while it is on. So for $20 to replace a ballast again or $59 to be rid of it... My lamp post in my front yard died when this cold snap hit. I replaced it with a 60W equivalent daylight LED bulb. I swear that bulb puts out more light than a 100W traditional or CFL bulb. it sounds like you are getting second rate ballasts, if they are going that quickly. or you have "dirty" power. but yes, here, LED bulbs are commonly marked over here with the wattage equivalent, and unlike CFL bulbs, the conversion tends to favor the LED. otherwise, they tend to have a 7-9:1 conversion factor. I.E. to replace a 60w incandescent, you want from 6.5w-8.5w
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Post by the light works on Feb 14, 2016 15:03:46 GMT
My concern about going with ones that use the old ballast is I tend to have had luck with ballasts. I am on my third one (T8) and it is going as well. It's putting off a descent amount of RF interference. I can't use my 2 meter wave length radios while it is on. So for $20 to replace a ballast again or $59 to be rid of it... My lamp post in my front yard died when this cold snap hit. I replaced it with a 60W equivalent daylight LED bulb. I swear that bulb puts out more light than a 100W traditional or CFL bulb. I'd sure get rid of that noisey ballast. Keep in mind, that if you go with the ballastless LED replacements for T8 tubes, you may also have to replace the lamp holder on the end where the power is applied to the tube. Some T8 lamp holders have shortening contacts when the tubes are removed. Not good when applying 120 V directly. They warn that some LED lightbulbs can also produce RFI. As I said, I've converted most of my lighting to LED with the exception of the fluorescent tubes. I have not noticed any RFI. In fact, the LED lamps seem to produce far less noise than the older CFL's they replaced. I never noticed the noise up on 2 m, but definitely on 40. Maybe because I always operated FM on 2 meters and not SSB. a 120V replacement tube should be powered from one end to the other. new fluorescents are the same way - one wire to each monument.
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Post by GTCGreg on Feb 14, 2016 15:21:38 GMT
I'd sure get rid of that noisey ballast. Keep in mind, that if you go with the ballastless LED replacements for T8 tubes, you may also have to replace the lamp holder on the end where the power is applied to the tube. Some T8 lamp holders have shortening contacts when the tubes are removed. Not good when applying 120 V directly. They warn that some LED lightbulbs can also produce RFI. As I said, I've converted most of my lighting to LED with the exception of the fluorescent tubes. I have not noticed any RFI. In fact, the LED lamps seem to produce far less noise than the older CFL's they replaced. I never noticed the noise up on 2 m, but definitely on 40. Maybe because I always operated FM on 2 meters and not SSB. a 120V replacement tube should be powered from one end to the other. new fluorescents are the same way - one wire to each monument. Not all of them. I believe the ones WV linked to are powered from one end only. That's why they include 4 "free" holders. You have to replace the one's on the end where you feed the power if replacing T-8's. If replacing T-12's you don't as T-12 holders have non shorting contacts. hyperikon.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/Single-ended-Installation-Guide-Advanced.pdf
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Post by GTCGreg on Feb 14, 2016 15:36:40 GMT
My concern about going with ones that use the old ballast is I tend to have had luck with ballasts. I am on my third one (T8) and it is going as well. It's putting off a descent amount of RF interference. I can't use my 2 meter wave length radios while it is on. So for $20 to replace a ballast again or $59 to be rid of it... My lamp post in my front yard died when this cold snap hit. I replaced it with a 60W equivalent daylight LED bulb. I swear that bulb puts out more light than a 100W traditional or CFL bulb. it sounds like you are getting second rate ballasts, if they are going that quickly. or you have "dirty" power. but yes, here, LED bulbs are commonly marked over here with the wattage equivalent, and unlike CFL bulbs, the conversion tends to favor the LED. otherwise, they tend to have a 7-9:1 conversion factor. I.E. to replace a 60w incandescent, you want from 6.5w-8.5w The LEDs used to replace the bulbs in our kitchen fixture were rated as 40 W replacements with an actual power draw of 6.5 W. I compared them to 60 W replacements (9 W actual) and could bearly perceive a difference in brightness. So I went with the 40 W replacements.
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Post by the light works on Feb 14, 2016 15:59:57 GMT
a 120V replacement tube should be powered from one end to the other. new fluorescents are the same way - one wire to each monument. Not all of them. I believe the ones WV linked to are powered from one end only. That's why they include 4 "free" holders. You have to replace the one's on the end where you feed the power if replacing T-8's. If replacing T-12's you don't as T-12 holders have non shorting contacts. hyperikon.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/Single-ended-Installation-Guide-Advanced.pdfwell, that's just stupid. I can see many more reasons why that won't work than reasons why it would be better. the first being that it requires you to completely rebuild ANY fixture you attempt to use the kit in. knowing that, I'm going to stick with upgrading the ballast as needed. I have to pull the end caps on about 5% of the fixtures I upgrade ballasts on - and those are all one specific batch of 3 lamp fixtures.
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Post by GTCGreg on Feb 14, 2016 16:57:19 GMT
well, that's just stupid. I can see many more reasons why that won't work than reasons why it would be better. the first being that it requires you to completely rebuild ANY fixture you attempt to use the kit in. knowing that, I'm going to stick with upgrading the ballast as needed. I have to pull the end caps on about 5% of the fixtures I upgrade ballasts on - and those are all one specific batch of 3 lamp fixtures. There seems to be no standard. That's going to make it hard when it comes time to replace them. You won't know what kind to get. Another thing you have to watch is the rated "life" of these LED's. They often claim something like 22 years but when you read the fine print, that's based on something like 3 hours a day. In a commercial environment where they may be on 24/7, that's less than 3 years. The other thing is what defines "end of life." LED's usually don't suffer sudden death. They tend to just get dimmer with age. Often they define end of life as the age at which they reach half brightness. In some applications, you may not want to wait that long.
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Post by the light works on Feb 14, 2016 19:50:25 GMT
well, that's just stupid. I can see many more reasons why that won't work than reasons why it would be better. the first being that it requires you to completely rebuild ANY fixture you attempt to use the kit in. knowing that, I'm going to stick with upgrading the ballast as needed. I have to pull the end caps on about 5% of the fixtures I upgrade ballasts on - and those are all one specific batch of 3 lamp fixtures. There seems to be no standard. That's going to make it hard when it comes time to replace them. You won't know what kind to get. Another thing you have to watch is the rated "life" of these LED's. They often claim something like 22 years but when you read the fine print, that's based on something like 3 hours a day. In a commercial environment where they may be on 24/7, that's less than 3 years. The other thing is what defines "end of life." LED's usually don't suffer sudden death. They tend to just get dimmer with age. Often they define end of life as the age at which they reach half brightness. In some applications, you may not want to wait that long. what I have seen is they are made of individual diodes, and the individuals become NEDs (Nothing Emitting Diodes) - so the "half life" is when half of the elements have become NEDs.
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Post by GTCGreg on Feb 14, 2016 20:59:22 GMT
There seems to be no standard. That's going to make it hard when it comes time to replace them. You won't know what kind to get. Another thing you have to watch is the rated "life" of these LED's. They often claim something like 22 years but when you read the fine print, that's based on something like 3 hours a day. In a commercial environment where they may be on 24/7, that's less than 3 years. The other thing is what defines "end of life." LED's usually don't suffer sudden death. They tend to just get dimmer with age. Often they define end of life as the age at which they reach half brightness. In some applications, you may not want to wait that long. what I have seen is they are made of individual diodes, and the individuals become NEDs (Nothing Emitting Diodes) - so the "half life" is when half of the elements have become NEDs. You guys inspired me to give these a try. I just ordered four 3500K tubes to see how they work. I didn't want to go with the 5000K type because I prefer a warmer color. I have seven 2-tube fixtures in my office/shop that are on all day long. I checked the power draw and each fixture draws 115 watts including the ballast. All are older magnetic type ballasts. These LED's are 18 watts each so that should save a substantial amount on the electric bill. Even more considering that I won't have to pay to have all that heat pumped outside in the summer. If I'm happy with the one's I ordered, I get more to replace the rest. I'll let you know how they work out when I get them. www.1000bulbs.com/product/153508/PLT-10020.html
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Post by the light works on Feb 14, 2016 21:46:54 GMT
what I have seen is they are made of individual diodes, and the individuals become NEDs (Nothing Emitting Diodes) - so the "half life" is when half of the elements have become NEDs. You guys inspired me to give these a try. I just ordered four 3500K tubes to see how they work. I didn't want to go with the 5000K type because I prefer a warmer color. I have seven 2-tube fixtures in my office/shop that are on all day long. I checked the power draw and each fixture draws 115 watts including the ballast. All are older magnetic type ballasts. These LED's are 18 watts each so that should save a substantial amount on the electric bill. Even more considering that I won't have to pay to have all that heat pumped outside in the summer. If I'm happy with the one's I ordered, I get more to replace the rest. I'll let you know how they work out when I get them. www.1000bulbs.com/product/153508/PLT-10020.htmlI've been converting the floodlights at the fire stations to "corncob" LED bulbs. at a 5:1 ratio to the high pressure sodium bulbs. the smaller lights I have been replacing 50&70W sodium bulbs with 13&25W compact fluorescents. for the christmas picture I did, I simply swapped the white for colored bulbs.
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Post by GTCGreg on Feb 20, 2016 3:31:32 GMT
You guys inspired me to give these a try. I just ordered four 3500K tubes to see how they work. I didn't want to go with the 5000K type because I prefer a warmer color. I have seven 2-tube fixtures in my office/shop that are on all day long. I checked the power draw and each fixture draws 115 watts including the ballast. All are older magnetic type ballasts. These LED's are 18 watts each so that should save a substantial amount on the electric bill. Even more considering that I won't have to pay to have all that heat pumped outside in the summer. If I'm happy with the one's I ordered, I get more to replace the rest. I'll let you know how they work out when I get them. www.1000bulbs.com/product/153508/PLT-10020.htmlI received the 4 tubes today and installed them in two fixtures over my desk and work bench. The instructions that came with the tubes for rewiring the fixtures were absolutely the most confusing instructions I've ever encountered. After looking over the tubes, I noticed that the pins on one end were labeled N and L and the pins on the other had no labeling at all. So I tried connecting power to L and N and, lo and behold, the tube lite up. So that's how I wired the fixture. Overall, I'm very impressed with these LED replacements. The 3500K color temperature is just slightly "warmer" than the "cool white" fluorescent tubes they replaced but I like that. I suspect the 4000K LED's would probably be closer to the "cool white" fluorescents. I would think the 5000K LEDs would be too white for my liking. The measured power consumption was 17.9 watts per tube and the light output is a little higher than the old 40W fluorescents. The total power for the two old fluorescents plus the ballast was 105 watts. The total for the two LED is 36.6 Watts. That should cut down the electric bill a little. Especially in summer when I'm running the A/C. With a rated life of 55,000 hours, if I have them on for 10 hours a day, 7days a week, they should last almost 14 years. I was getting about 3 years out of a set of fluorescents. So I guess my next step is to order another 10 LEDs and replace the rest of the old tubes.
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Post by the light works on Feb 20, 2016 5:35:02 GMT
You guys inspired me to give these a try. I just ordered four 3500K tubes to see how they work. I didn't want to go with the 5000K type because I prefer a warmer color. I have seven 2-tube fixtures in my office/shop that are on all day long. I checked the power draw and each fixture draws 115 watts including the ballast. All are older magnetic type ballasts. These LED's are 18 watts each so that should save a substantial amount on the electric bill. Even more considering that I won't have to pay to have all that heat pumped outside in the summer. If I'm happy with the one's I ordered, I get more to replace the rest. I'll let you know how they work out when I get them. www.1000bulbs.com/product/153508/PLT-10020.htmlI received the 4 tubes today and installed them in two fixtures over my desk and work bench. The instructions that came with the tubes for rewiring the fixtures were absolutely the most confusing instructions I've ever encountered. After looking over the tubes, I noticed that the pins on one end were labeled N and L and the pins on the other had no labeling at all. So I tried connecting power to L and N and, lo and behold, the tube lite up. So that's how I wired the fixture. Overall, I'm very impressed with these LED replacements. The 3500K color temperature is just slightly "warmer" than the "cool white" fluorescent tubes they replaced but I like that. I suspect the 4000K LED's would probably be closer to the "cool white" fluorescents. I would think the 5000K LEDs would be too white for my liking. The measured power consumption was 17.9 watts per tube and the light output is a little higher than the old 40W fluorescents. The total power for the two old fluorescents plus the ballast was 105 watts. The total for the two LED is 36.6 Watts. That should cut down the electric bill a little. Especially in summer when I'm running the A/C. With a rated life of 55,000 hours, if I have them on for 10 hours a day, 7days a week, they should last almost 14 years. I was getting about 3 years out of a set of fluorescents. So I guess my next step is to order another 10 LEDs and replace the rest of the old tubes. I've been pleased with the current generation.
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Post by wvengineer on Feb 21, 2016 1:28:56 GMT
GTCGreg, can you explain to me what the 3500K measures? I prefer the "daylight" bulbs over the more yellow ones. What would I be looking for?
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Post by the light works on Feb 21, 2016 1:41:22 GMT
GTCGreg, can you explain to me what the 3500K measures? I prefer the "daylight" bulbs over the more yellow ones. What would I be looking for? the 3500K is color temperature. technical answer is it is the equivalent color of a tungsten filament incandescing at that temperature. the simple answer is the higher the number the bluer the light. www.mediacollege.com/lighting/colour/images/colour-temperature.gif
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