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Post by GTCGreg on Dec 27, 2019 23:41:55 GMT
They make flanges for just this purpose. Maybe you could just attache it to the blower's intake grill or make a new mounting plate out of plastic or sheet metal to replace the existing grill.   |
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Post by rmc on Dec 28, 2019 2:25:39 GMT
They make flanges for just this purpose. Maybe you could just attache it to the blower's intake grill or make a new mounting plate out of plastic or sheet metal to replace the existing grill. Well, right. Flanges. But, about the negative pressure an air mover like this (800 cfm) can make via its centrifugal wheel, - it should pull air as usual if the hoses that are hooked up to its inlets are the same diameter as the grill, right? (nothing blocking the inlets in other words - only a long duct and it's drag, like we spoke about before... maybe 50 feet of cabinet and ducting altogether) I just have this feeling it's going to be underpowered somehow, you know. Like pulling air out is somehow very different than sending air in. It isn't different is it? It sure feels like it is. |
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Post by GTCGreg on Dec 28, 2019 5:32:44 GMT
Give it a try, but I don't think you are going to have a blower power issue. If anything, I think you are going to find you have way too much airflow. But the only way to be sure is to try it.
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Post by rmc on Dec 28, 2019 11:07:41 GMT
Give it a try, but I don't think you are going to have a blower power issue. If anything, I think you are going to find you have way too much airflow. But the only way to be sure is to try it. I want to thank you and The Light Works for your both addressing this. Neither of you had to spend any time on this, but you both helped to hone truth out of mere speculation. I do appreciate that. You're both the type of people the world needs many more of! THANK YOU BOTH!!!! |
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Post by the light works on Dec 28, 2019 14:57:55 GMT
hopefully it does what you are trying to do with it.
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Post by GTCGreg on Dec 28, 2019 15:22:25 GMT
Give it a try, but I don't think you are going to have a blower power issue. If anything, I think you are going to find you have way too much airflow. But the only way to be sure is to try it. I want to thank you and The Light Works for your both addressing this. Neither of you had to spend any time on this, but you both helped to hone truth out of mere speculation. I do appreciate that. You're both the type of people the world needs many more of! THANK YOU BOTH!!!! Keep in mind that it’s this type of engineering problem solving that TLW and I do for a living. I can’t speak for TLW, but I enjoy a good engineering challenge. |
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Post by GTCGreg on Dec 28, 2019 15:52:07 GMT
One other thing I wanted to mention is the design of your air baffle box. The type of sound you are trying to block by your upstairs neighbor thumping on your ceiling is called an impulse sound. Impulse sounds are very short in duration but contain a lot of low frequency energy. They are the hardest type of noise to block because they tend to travel through solid objects. I don’t think you’re going to have much problem with this impulse sound entering the air passageway and traveling through your baffle box, but the sound could enter the baffle box through the solid sides of your baffle box. One way to minimize this is to make sure the sides of your baffle box are very rigid. Don’t just screw them to the box around the side edges but also put screws through the sides of your box into the individual baffle boards inside the box. This will ensure that the sides are very rigidly attached and minimize the effect of impulse noise traveling through the sides of the box. If tapping on the side of your baffle box produces a thump sound, the sides are not rigid enough to block impulse noise.
This is also true of the sides of your sleep chamber as well. The more rigid they are, the better they will block low frequency sound.
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Post by rmc on Dec 28, 2019 16:11:00 GMT
One other thing I wanted to mention is the design of your air baffle box. The type of sound you are trying to block by your upstairs neighbor thumping on your ceiling is called an impulse sound. Impulse sounds are very short in duration but contain a lot of low frequency energy. They are the hardest type of noise to block because they tend to travel through solid objects. I don’t think you’re going to have much problem with this impulse sound entering the air passageway and traveling through your baffle box, but the sound could enter the baffle box through the solid sides of your baffle box. One way to minimize this is to make sure the sides of your baffle box are very rigid. Don’t just screw them to the box around the side edges but also put screws through the sides of your box into the individual baffle boards inside the box. This will ensure that the sides are very rigidly attached and minimize the effect of impulse noise traveling through the sides of the box. If tapping on the side of your baffle box produces a thump sound, the sides are not rigid enough to block impulse noise Right! That thump, thump is what I am after and absolutely is the hardest to damp away. Noise reduction on firing ranges use noise cancelation to fend off this problem best. Trouble is, I cannot sleep on my side too well with noise-canceling headphones on. And I need to sleep on my side to address sleep apnea. Man, I'm totally messed up when I think about it! Lol. I also include decoupling principles in my design too. Hang the sound damping material on the hard shell exterior, such that none of the hard exterior framework extends into the heart of the cabin, that could provide pathway for vibrations. Add a little white noise while wearing whatever ear plug one can wear routinely and that should just about do it. I'm currently making a 1/12th scale model of it all (need to save up money for the expected $1,100.00 cost of the thing, so I might as well spend my time checking and re-checking as much as possible... for now, sleep in the garage with a heavy down sleeping bag!) |
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Post by rmc on Jan 2, 2020 22:24:52 GMT
I've made some crude progress on the Sound-resistant sleep chamber, and am going to post video of it here, if that's okay.
Keep in mind I am highly limited in budget and space.
The place:
(**changes have happened - see below)
The materials:
The model:
**The materials are now 5/8" plywood outer shell, with 2.5" mineral wool interior, covered in cellulose and felt along the inside.
The front door would still be foam core (for being light) but would have several layers of cellulose and felt.
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Post by the light works on Jan 2, 2020 22:46:58 GMT
a foam core door would probably transmit less sound than a solid core door, anyway.
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Post by GTCGreg on Jan 2, 2020 23:20:46 GMT
Looking at your model, I can't think of anything I would recommend doing differently. Hopefully the full size chamber will work well.
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Post by rmc on Jan 15, 2020 12:46:15 GMT
Looking at your model, I can't think of anything I would recommend doing differently. Hopefully the full size chamber will work well. I am wondering if, while using a carpet-dryer/air mover, if having a lot of work for the inlet side of the blower to do, (pulling air through a lot of conduit), will cause some sort of overwork condition, resulting in fire. There are warnings not to obstruct the inlets or fire could result. Of course, I am not directly blocking the inlets outright, but I am expecting them to pull probably more than usual. What made fire in the following video anyway? I can't make it out. |
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Post by GTCGreg on Jan 15, 2020 13:19:46 GMT
Looking at your model, I can't think of anything I would recommend doing differently. Hopefully the full size chamber will work well. I am wondering if, while using a carpet-dryer/air mover, if having a lot of work for the inlet side of the blower to do, (pulling air through a lot of conduit), will cause some sort of overwork condition, resulting in fire. There are warnings not to obstruct the inlets or fire could result. Of course, I am not directly blocking the inlets outright, but I am expecting them to pull probably more than usual. What made fire in the following video anyway? I can't make it out. In the video, it looks like they were testing the thermal overload cut out in the motor. They probably had the motor shorted or some thing to see if the overload was going to kick in in time, and it didn’t. They certainly weren’t blocking the inlet. If the blower you are thinking of using specifically says not to block the inlet, then I don’t think I would use that one. It’s probably because they use airflow to cool the motor and with the Inlet blocked, they wouldn’t have enough airflow. I still think you are way over doing the size of the blower. |
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Post by the light works on Jan 15, 2020 14:49:23 GMT
Looking at your model, I can't think of anything I would recommend doing differently. Hopefully the full size chamber will work well. I am wondering if, while using a carpet-dryer/air mover, if having a lot of work for the inlet side of the blower to do, (pulling air through a lot of conduit), will cause some sort of overwork condition, resulting in fire. There are warnings not to obstruct the inlets or fire could result. Of course, I am not directly blocking the inlets outright, but I am expecting them to pull probably more than usual. What made fire in the following video anyway? I can't make it out. first, they were running it WAY underspeed, which means it was pulling WAY more amperage than it was designed for. since all I heard was underspeed motor noise, I strongly suspect they ran it on low voltage, which is death on motors. even so, it still cooked off way quicker than I expected it to, so they may have already overheated it and damaged the insulation on the windings - leading to short windings and also making it run underspeed and overcurrent. as for restricting the airflow - Greg has a definite point about the airflow cooling the motor, although the primary intake will be on the side opposite the motor. it would make sense to regulate your airflow, if desired, by porting the duct just before the blower rather than by adding restrictions. |
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Post by GTCGreg on Jan 15, 2020 16:13:19 GMT
I am wondering if, while using a carpet-dryer/air mover, if having a lot of work for the inlet side of the blower to do, (pulling air through a lot of conduit), will cause some sort of overwork condition, resulting in fire. There are warnings not to obstruct the inlets or fire could result. Of course, I am not directly blocking the inlets outright, but I am expecting them to pull probably more than usual. What made fire in the following video anyway? I can't make it out. first, they were running it WAY underspeed, which means it was pulling WAY more amperage than it was designed for. since all I heard was underspeed motor noise, I strongly suspect they ran it on low voltage, which is death on motors. even so, it still cooked off way quicker than I expected it to, so they may have already overheated it and damaged the insulation on the windings - leading to short windings and also making it run underspeed and overcurrent. as for restricting the airflow - Greg has a definite point about the airflow cooling the motor, although the primary intake will be on the side opposite the motor. it would make sense to regulate your airflow, if desired, by porting the duct just before the blower rather than by adding restrictions. There was something else going on there. Look at the amp meter. It's range is 15 Amp full scale and it was pegged way beyond 15 Amps. Even running a motor that size undervolt isn't going to draw that much current. It was like the motor was already shorted. |
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Post by the light works on Jan 15, 2020 16:57:54 GMT
first, they were running it WAY underspeed, which means it was pulling WAY more amperage than it was designed for. since all I heard was underspeed motor noise, I strongly suspect they ran it on low voltage, which is death on motors. even so, it still cooked off way quicker than I expected it to, so they may have already overheated it and damaged the insulation on the windings - leading to short windings and also making it run underspeed and overcurrent. as for restricting the airflow - Greg has a definite point about the airflow cooling the motor, although the primary intake will be on the side opposite the motor. it would make sense to regulate your airflow, if desired, by porting the duct just before the blower rather than by adding restrictions. There was something else going on there. Look at the amp meter. It's range is 15 Amp full scale and it was pegged way beyond 15 Amps. Even running a motor that size undervolt isn't going to draw that much current. It was like the motor was already shorted. plus, as I said, how quickly it cooked off. hence my speculation they had already overheated it and damaged it before the video. that said, as far as the thermal protection - that is about the slowest responding safety feature available. it's why circuit breakers that rely on thermal overload trips are now considered obsolete and thermal motor protectors require short circuit protection. you'll also notice the fire died out almost as soon as the power was disconnected - because the rest of the motor wasn't hot enough to support combustion - or activate the thermal protection. for my take on the load - my 12A rotohammer, that got cooked off by my generator running low on fuel, now draws about 30 A. |
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Post by rmc on Jan 16, 2020 15:31:28 GMT
If the blower you are thinking of using specifically says not to block the inlet, then I don’t think I would use that one. It’s probably because they use airflow to cool the motor and with the Inlet blocked, they wouldn’t have enough airflow. So having a tunnel leading up to the inlet is the same exact thing as "blocking the inlet" do you think? By the way, all of the air movers I could quickly get my hands on at Menards warn not to block the inlet like this one does. Probably. I'll scale back as needed. |
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Post by GTCGreg on Jan 16, 2020 15:43:34 GMT
If the blower you are thinking of using specifically says not to block the inlet, then I don’t think I would use that one. It’s probably because they use airflow to cool the motor and with the Inlet blocked, they wouldn’t have enough airflow. So having a tunnel leading up to the inlet is the same exact thing as "blocking the inlet" do you think? By the way, all of the air movers I could quickly get my hands on at Menards warn not to block the inlet like this one does. Probably. I'll scale back as needed. I don't think that the restrictions your ductwork would present would be considered blocking the inlet. |
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Post by rmc on Apr 12, 2020 11:56:26 GMT
Well, I've been using the sleep box now for about a month.
Fan: a bit of a hum inside. I can hear it, yes. I CAN sleep through it, but I've taken to using the soft silicone putty ear "plugs" (the type that don't go into the ear canal). Maybe after this fan wears out I'll find another that has less hum. It's about 6 or 700 cfm at the setting I use (#2 setting). As far as that being too strong: no. It's not. There is only a slight sensation of a breeze in certain locations within the box. Other than that, the only way I know the fan is actually doing its job is because the box stays comfortable with regard to temperature.
Overall noise reduction when using this box of mine: this, unfortunately, is the sad point. It likely only reduces the sound of somebody upstairs stomping by maybe 50 percent. And, that's factoring in the "white noise" of the fan too. So, again, the soft putty earplugs are needed for this too.
On nights when I need the most rest (that would be friday going into saturday morning, because the college I go to opens at 7:30 a.m., and has an absolutely outstanding math department available then until noon) on those nights the upstairs people ARE THE MOST NOISY of course, well, because it's party all night friday, of course. Anyway, on those nights I also wear a set of over-the-ear headphones too.
Only then, with the box, fan, "plugs", and headphones do I finally drown out the "wooden clog" stomping.
One night, however, I was shaken awake with some sort of series of forces emanating from somewhere above me. That was highly, highly upsetting. Later, though, looking at the recorded video from the outside (next room over to catch less of the fan) I noticed that, at that point in the night, a police helicopter had flown over very low and loud. So, I can't blame the people upstairs for that.
I am looking into Adaptive Noise Canceling neckpods or headphones, but suspect my current headphones will have to do since I DO NOT WANT to have to listen to music all night, or use a cell phone all night.
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Post by GTCGreg on Apr 12, 2020 12:20:39 GMT
I have a set of Cowin E7 noise canceling headphones. They are over the ear type but fairly light and comfortable. They have Bluetooth so you can listen to music if you want to, but you don’t need that to use the noise canceling feature. In fact, using noise canceling and playing music at the same time tends to distort the music. They do a really good job of canceling out lower frequency noises, but not as good with higher frequencies.
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